Kids in changing room at gym

[Snowypony]

Yesterday I was running late for my aqua gym class

i already had my swimming costume on under my clothes

i I ran in the changing rooms and there was a boy in there who was taller than me

i didn’t have time to question the Mum - he had clearly started puberty. He watched me get changed which left me very uncomfortable

i I got in the pool and my friend saw I was a bit upset and asked why. I explained and said the boy was about 12. There are no changing rooms at my gym - it’s just benches so you have to get naked when changing

my friend went over and spoke to the Mun who got really angry and said he’s entitled to be in there he’s only 11

when I got out they’re left but I still went and complained to the gym staff.

I don’t have a ds only dd so I’ve never had this issue. But is it reasonable to expect an 11 year old to use their own sex changing room?

Thank you

Thought of this thread when watching the local news last night - shockingly locally an 11 year old male was arrested last week for sexual assault of two women.

I do think such incidents are rare but it only goes to reinforce the need for female spaces to be male free.
Even if you remove the risk factor women & girls want and need privacy away from men & boys. We need to teach our daughters that their boundaries are allowed and not unreasonable. We need to teach our sons that crossing those boundaries is not acceptable.

If a venue cannot be meet their needs or their needs mean crossing the boundaries of other women & girls using the female space then they cannot use that venue. There is no entitlement to do so.

I have also observed that prioritising the rights of women and girls over other minority groups causes great anger. See also the incident in cologne and the whole trans debacle.

It’s deep deep seated misogyny that the rights of other groups (however deserving) should always trump those of women and girls and people get baffled and furious when we say this cannot happen.

DS now 15 has been using male only changing rooms since age of 8. To be honest he actually asked to go in alone for his own privacy too.

If I had taken him in age 11 he would have been mortified and never returned

If you must change with your pre teen son then please use a family changing area. It's not.comfortable for anyone concerned.

This is not remotely the same thing.

Couldn't you have got changed in a toilet cubicle or by draping a towel around you. It seems odd to strip naked in front of him?

Why should other women have to adapt because someone has bought a male over the allowed age in there?

Also,@Snowypony DIDN'T strip naked, if you read her post correctly.

So women's discomfort is irrelevant? Surely at 11 your son knows the basics of safety and leaving a situation he's comfortable with. It's not really on women to have to put up with this situation because you are overall anxious. Probably best if you don't take him swimming.

Why should a female in a female changing room modify her behaviour to suit a male who should not be in that space? Honestly, the mind boggles at the entitlement of some people!

I'm the mum of a ten-year-old boy. There is no way on this earth he's going into the male changing rooms on his own. Not a chance. Our options are therefore plentiful:

Dad takes him.
When I take him, I get him dried under a dry robe in a discreet place in the pool area. I do likewise. Then we go off and shower at home.
I take him, ready-changed, for his swim. Then get him under his dry-robe, joggers and shoes, and dad (or substitute any other trusted adult) picks him up whilst I have a swim and sauna at my leisure.
We choose another venue with mixed-sex changing facilities.

None of these options involve the instant assumption that women and girls will cede over their space at the cost of their privacy, dignity and safety. Before anyone jumps on this, this is not an assertion that a 10-year-old kid is a threat. It's merely an observation that the more this boundary is crossed, the easier it will be for actual predators to take advantage. And they are legion. If we didn't already know this there'd be no issue with a 10-year-old using male changing facilities. If a gym/pool permits families then it needs facilities to accommodate them, including those with disabilities. If it doesn't, relinquish your membership and tell them why.

I also suspect that the doubling-down on the 'no males, for whatever reason, ever' stance on the part of women is that many are sick and tired of having their rights thrown under the bus to appease male entitlement. See, for eg., the Korean spa; until this sort of thing became a documented issue the odd exemption for valid reasons would likely have passed unnoticed. It's like that old Grimm story 'The Fisherman and his Wife': demand a cottage, then a castle, and for a time you get what you want. But when the demands run all the way up to extremes, like being Lord of the Sun and Moon, then eventually you're going to be told to return to the ditch you started in.

QED.

@MaterialGirlAllDay - I saw the exhausting-looking exchange take place above, but for obvious reasons I couldn't be arsed to comment. Just to say, you have made no unreasonable or controversial points that I can see.

Quite. My son is 8 so at the limit. I have started sending him into the men’s when i can, it’s a small local pool so feels a good safe prep for when he’s 9 and I can’t take him into the women’s change room anywhere anymore.

@MaterialGirlAllDay- I saw the exhausting-looking exchange take place above, but for obvious reasons I couldn't be arsed to comment. Just to say, you have made no unreasonable or controversial points that I can see.

I appreciate the observation thank you.
It appears that to some people, females wanting female only spaces is unreasonable and controversial which says quite alot about them and their view of women & girls.

Not unreasonable at all @MaterialGirlAllDay

I have already said that I will, when the time comes, aim to ensure that facilities are appropriate - unisex/disabled prior to going anywhere.

However, there are instances where appropriate facilities are promised or expected and then turn out not to be there and in these instances - such as only one disabled change which doubles as a baby change, or closed facilities - we will be asking for reasonable adaptations for DS to allow him access, whatever the management decides.

This is such an offensive comparison.

It's going to blow your mind, too, but having a disability isn't exclusive to 10 or 11 year old boys.

However, there are instances where appropriate facilities are promised or expected and then turn out not to be there and in these instances - such as only one disabled change which doubles as a baby change, or closed facilities - we will be asking for reasonable adaptations for DS to allow him access, whatever the management decides.

Yes, people seem to struggle with the fact that it’s up to the management what they do if there aren’t adequate facilities provided, not up to the individual requiring access or the men/women in the space they decide to empty.

I don't think anyone has struggled with that fact at all.
What people are struggling with is the assumption that it will always be/should be the female space that is "adjusted".

Why would it blow my mind?

All people with disabilities deserve access, able bodied people should do what they can to support that.

Are you honestly saying somebody can’t stand aside for 5 minutes to let someone change - be that a man in mens or woman in women’s changing room.

I’ve had support and I have given support and I’ve understood my privilege as an able bodied person and made space for disabled.

Where proper facilities aren’t available it would depend on the age and sex of the disabled person and carer as to what they do, keeping in mind safety of both, and perhaps looking at factors such as how busy the changing rooms are at the time.

I agree and personally feel that the sex of the person who requires support should decide which changing room is used/cleared depending on the sex of the carer. So for a male with a female carer clear the men's room. For a female with a male carer clear the women's room.

😂😂😂 I LOVE THIS!

When it was pointed out that management decide which space to close,

so it can be that a female carer with a male child is told that they will close the female space for them for 10 minutes- this is totally unacceptable, why should a male inconvenience women, no male ever in female spaces (even though it’s a disabled child)

but now it’s totally fine for the woman to be inconvenienced by their space being closed so that a fully grown male carer can be in there?

Make your mind up!

It so so obvious that when an opposite sex carer is involved, and the venue doesn’t have an appropriate changing room or toilet that the manager will close whichever is less busy at that time!

@MaterialGirlAllDay I also agree with pp in that you've said nothing unreasonable.

I thought it would blow your mind because you said that those who don't agree that boys should be allowed in female spaces are like those who want disabled people removed from society.

This assumes that the only people within the discussion who are disabled are the boys who need access to female spaces, and that no girls or women have disabilities which require those spaces to be kept free of boys and men.

You've done it again in your comment. "Somebody can't stand aside for 5 minutes to make space for the disabled?" Well, no, potentially not if they are disabled themselves. Because they might be. Disability not just affecting 10 or 11 year old boys.

According to this thread, it doesn’t matter if women are disabled themselves, if they have male children they have to get out of everyone’s way.

I as a woman, can’t expect to get changed or wee in a female space made available to me, because I have ds10 with me.

If I had a male carer however, I would be able to expect to use the female space made available to me, although I have ds10 with me.

So, all my problems with this issue would be solved by having a male carer- I’m being screwed over by being gay and preferring a female to do intimate care.