To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

Chope. Upskirting. Looking after women's rights. All day, every day. Like so many of his political bedmates.

Along with Philip Davies.

Really - are you still just rubbishing the Tories.

We all get that.

The question is how much do you trust Labour on women's rights, freedom of speech, protecting vulnerable children etc.

Some faltering steps forward on these issues - largely thanks to JKR and Cass - but let's all push it so much more!!!

Please no more posts on awful Tories - let's focus on how much can we influence Labour - the next Government- that's the issue here FFS

We can post how disgustingly awful (and more) the Tories are in respect of women and children's rights as frequently as we wish.

You changing your narrative so late in the day, calling those who refused to follow your request/demand basically ignorant morons, just makes you look like a Tory, willing to change your narrative at the drop of a hat. Pretending that you cleverly used some subterfuge 'for our own benefit' because basically we're too stupid/moronic to understand women's right.🙄

And don't get me started on your own transparent one issue obsession aligned with your desperation to entice others to become similarly myopic.

As we say in Glasgow 'It's time for you to bolt/ do one, this is not your personal echo chamber.'

It's hard not to compare them with the alternative, because we're not voting for some mythical ideal: we're voting for the better of the alternatives.

But I think that Labour will be better for women's rights in that they will be better on avoiding (or at least limiting) cuts in public services that disproportionately harm women; reducing poverty, which also tends to affect women the most; enforcing laws against rape, sexual assault and domestic violence; resisting the incursions into politics and law of the so-called pro-life movement, and the religious right more generally.

Freedom of speech? I think no party will enforce absolute freedom of speech, (and is it even possible/ desirable to have NO restrictions on incitement and libel, for example?); but I think Labour will be less inclined to curb protest, or to wage war on the BBC for criticizing the government. (In general, people tend to regard freedom of speech as meaning 'my right to say what I want' and are less keen on giving the same right to others with whom they disagree.

Protecting vulnerable children? Though many child protection services are still the responsibility of county councils (neither national government nor city councils) and, of course, the police, I think Labour will be better than the alternative, because they will be less inclined to cut services that may help to protect children

Two on the upside the SNP have introduced a ridiculous law which in many people's opinions has been rubbished by JKR and has led Labour to wheel out spokespersons saying they would never do such a thing

Have they (Labour) really now?

That's curious for a number of reasons. Firstly, Labour back the Scots Bill and voted with the SNP, secondly, Scots Hate Crime Laws are now more or less identical to those elsewhere in the UK, i.e. the UK is pretty much in lockstep, so it's utterly disingenuous for Labour to pretend there is anything to "do" about Hate Crime law in the first place, unless of course, the contention is now that because England's are practically indistinguishable from Scotland's they are surely unfit for purpose, "ridiculous", and needing reviewed. But funnily enough, nope, silence on that score.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
I don't think that's quite right about Scottish hate crime laws now being in lock step with the rest of the UK.
One key difference is that the legislation mandates that every reported incident is investigated (unlike crimes that the average person is likely more concerned about such as burglary). This is wide open to abuse and vexatious reporting. In the first week of the law over 8000 hate crimes were reported whereas the previous rate was around 6000 per year. This puts a huge burden on the police force.

Please no more posts on awful Tories - let's focus on how much can we influence Labour - the next Government- that's the issue here FFS

The title of your thread is urging us to vote Tory. Of course we’re all going to tell you the many reasons why that isn’t going to happen. What did you expect? If the issue is now influencing an incoming Labour government, start a new thread about it. You might want to look at the Labour response to the Cass report first.

There is no lockstep between Scotland and England and Wales in terms of "hate crime": Scotland has now invented the term placed it into law as a motivation independently of other criminal action before conviction and then sentencing whereas in England and Wales, a judge has to find that hatred of a particular characteristic was present to a criminal standard and then aggravate the sentence after conviction for a crime like assault. Crime first and then consideration of the motivation.

That is hugely different from what Scotland has done.

So you have gone from Vote Tory to Stop Being Nasty to the Tories 😂

She's just shifted her stance to up the thread as far as I can see.

I am completely happy to stop being nasty to Tories.

When they stop being nasty to the rest of us.

They can be nasty and then get the taxpayer to pay for their libel case

UK taxpayers have paid out more than £34,000 to cover cost of science minister Michelle Donelan’s libel case - more than double the sum the government previously admitted.

The legal fees racked up by the cabinet minister after wrongly accusing an academic of supporting or sympathising with Hamas cost the public an additional £19,000, on top of the £15,000 libel settlement

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/michelle-donelan-used-34000-of-taxpayer-funds-to-cover-libel-costs

I’m voting Reform as the Tories and labour are exactly the same

You are of course free to vote as you wish, but that simply isn't true.

And even if it were true, Reform is worse than both on every level…

Loads of Tories were very vocal in their anger at Chope. His attitude is his alone, not party policy.

Yabu
I'd never vote tory.
I'd never vote for any party based on one sole issue I think that's ridiculous.
The tories don't really give a shit about women they just know that stance will win them some votes. Look at the rest of their voting record on issues regarding women? Look how they got into bed with the dup who want to restrict the rights to abortion... it's horrific. No way would I vote for them nor should any reasonable woman. Take the blinkers off.

Is he still a Tory?

Does he still represent the Tory party?

Did he then proceed to stymie the FGM bill too? (Again to the 'disappointment' of his colleagues?)
Was he subsequently knighted by the Tories?

That's like saying your employee/colleague is a racist, behaves like a racist, speaks like a racist, acts like a racist, you don't like it but it's fine because it's his attitude alone so no disciplinary measures required other than some people shaking their heads and snatching some airtime/media column inches over the issue.

@ChristinaXYZ - that is wrong. Chope has long been used by Tory whips to talk out or speak against bills they do not like. In that sense he is a very loyal Conservative

Bollocks. His attitude is condoned by his party, and that says it all.

Did his party not just knight him, or was that someone else?

Are you new to the UK @Hurrydash? All the evidence of the Tory's contempt for British women did not just come to light on this thread, or even your last one. They have been destroying women's rights and circumstances since they came to power 14 years ago.

Well, quite. OP, if you genuinely didn't know about the Tories ' track record and its impact on women, you have some major study to do. See you in a month or so.

Scottish woman here and will never vote Tory. Counting down the days until I can vote against them. Hate everything they stand for. They are morally bankrupt, heartless cretins.