To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

@FFSNorman I'm no fan of Cameron, but it's odd to single him out for supposed homophobia when his govt introduced same sex marriage.

Aj485

Here’s a radical idea - why not compensate people fairly for their work so that they can afford a decent standard of living?

Ignoring whether you are for or against trans people, 0.5% of the uk population is trans. 18% of the uk population is below the poverty line. I’ll vote for whoever is focusing on the NHS, on affordable childcare, on a living wage, on who will stop shit being pumped into rivers… I think all those things are a bigger threat than whether or not the person in the public toilet cubical next to me was born with a penis

@BrimfulofSasha Sure. But of the two things, fixing the economy, reducing poverty and improving every public service takes billions of pounds and immense amounts of energy and diligence to steer them back into the right direction, saying you're not going to pass legislation to let any man (including the sweet lovely ones, the average ones, and the absolutely horrific ones) become legally women takes no effort at all. Would be nice if one of the main parties could manage both.

@Underthinker would you permit women to become men?

@JessS1990 I guess you mean in a legal sense? No. I think having a different legal gender to your biological sex is an unnecessary and harmful concept. In the same way I don't think people should have an age that they actually are and a separate legal age of whatever they'd like their age to be.

It’s not as easy as you appear to think.

Amendments to the current legislation are going to be difficult. We have the Gender Recognition Act because the UK was required, by the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), to recognize the right of transgender people to be legally recognized as the gender of their choice (including having their sex markers changed on ID docs).

Of course you may not think the ECtHR - or human rights - are important.

So why the emphasis on your previous post on men becoming women?

You've misead my post. I've said nothing about repealing the GRA. Labour are planning to pass legislation to make the process simpler and thereby remove the minimal safeguards that currently exist. They can simply choose not to do this.

Because while it's a bad idea generally, bigger risks to safety and fairness arise from men gaining easier access to womens sports and spaces than the other way around.

They’re not. The safeguard of clinical input would remain. The proposed change would require one doctor’s endorsement rather than two as is currently the case. You think that nobody should legally be permitted to acquire their preferred gender.

Medical workloads being what they are these days that just makes sense. Now to remove the two doctor requirement for an abortion and we're cooking with gas.

@blossomtoes

Currently the clinical input comes from an appointed panel, so they are experts who can supposedly judge each application fairly. Labour's reforms (if i understand them correctly) let the applicant find any doctor willing to give them a diagnosis. So you'll probably just end up with a gender GP type company who diagnose privately for money. The current system is a bad idea, Labour reforms will likely be worse.

You think that nobody should legally be permitted to acquire their preferred gender.

Yes precisely. But as you correctly pointed out, changing the GRA process to be more stringent or removing it altogether would be politically & legally difficult. So I don't anticipate any party will push it in the near future.

Why would you ban some people from being who they are?

What do you mean with 'those'?

Like those who are saying that Labour will erase women?

I disagree, I think it's a fair question. Your response tells me everything about the way some GC people just love to shut down debate.

Sunak is saying he would leave the ECHR to get flights to Rwanda, how much damage do you think that will do to women's rights?

All for a gimmick

Here is the link

x.com/MrHarryCole/status/1775585748101599600?s=20

Britain will quit the ECHR if that is what it takes to stop small boats, Sunak tells Sun readers tonight.

For the first time in his premiership, the PM threatened to end the UK’s 71-year tie to the European Convention of Human Rights.

Indeed, I am someone who is interested in having a discussion to learn more.
Is that such a sin?

He really is determined to ensure that any Shire conservatives who view themselves as compassionate don't vote for the party in future.

Love to shut down debate? Hardly. I got banned from commenting for life from my previous newspaper of choice (the guardian) for commenting on gender too often. GCs generally love debate because we have the decent arguments.

But OK then let's explain it for those who want it explaining.

Not having a legal change of gender doesn't "ban someone from being who they are". No one can ban you from being who you are. Everyone is who they are all of the time. Someone can ban you from doing something, like fox hunting or driving after you've got too many points on your licence. No one can ban you from being you.

Specifically in this case without a GRC someone can wear what they want, love and or marry anyone who'll have them, call themselves whatever name they want, support any football team, follow any band, choose any wallpaper they like... etc etc

BrimfulofSasha
Ignoring whether you are for or against trans people, 0.5% of the uk population is trans. 18% of the uk population is below the poverty line. I’ll vote for whoever is focusing on the NHS, on affordable childcare, on a living wage, on who will stop shit being pumped into rivers…

FFSNorman
The Tories’ main tactic is Othering. Whether it is brown people on boats, disabled people, unwell people, or indeed trans people. They’re Other.

Exactly.

The Tories have done nothing whatsoever to advance women's rights in all the time they've been in power. However they've done a lot to promote divisiveness and othering, and lower living standards for working class people. It's inconceivable that anybody would view the Tories as champions of womens' rights.

This post is just yet another attempt to promote
pro-Tory and anti-Trans beyond the Feminism board. Many people have a lot to worry about these days and repeatedly banging on about a singular issue as if it's the only issue women should be concerned about, really isn't going to cut it.