To think being 45 mins late takes the piss

[Ivorymoon]

Arranged to meet a friend in the park today to meet my 4 month old baby. Agreed the day in advance and that we would meet in the morning, confirmed the time this morning and I messaged her again as I was leaving. As I got to the park I received a message from her saying she was just leaving. 15 minutes pass and she still wasn’t there, I message again asking her ETA and she says she will be another half hour - and she would still need to find a parking spot and walk to the park. At which point I decided to cancel - I was sick of waiting around, baby would need feeding soon, I also have horrible post partum joint pain which makes standing / walking for long periods very difficult.

So as not to drip feed - friend is lovely, has ADHD and is often late, I thought she might be more mindful as I now have a baby. I don’t mind waiting 10 mins or so but over half an hour is ridiculous without good reason IMO. I’ve been disappointed my friend hasn’t arranged to see me/ meet baby sooner as we both live in the same city, but she’s been very stressed and preoccupied with her PhD write up. Perhaps my disappointment is colouring my view on this.

Friend said she didn’t realise there was a ‘specific time window’ in regards to our meeting after I cancelled and explained why. I’m baffled by this as we did set a time.

AIBU to think being 45 mins late is rude and that it was fair enough of me to cancel?

I am ADHD. Being late is incredibly rude and there are no justifications for it. We all have smart phones and can use them to set timers and reminders. Being habitually late is unacceptable.

Haha, the park is more local to me tbf but the only reason I was there today was to meet her. She knows this but she just wasn’t thinking.

She was very rude. She basically thinks your time is less valuable than hers.

My hunch is that that is how she saw it. OP would be in the park with her baby, because that's what people with kids do, and the friend would join them for that at 11ish with focus on the ish.
OP, its definitely worth having a conversation with her about how it makes you feel when you're left hanging and how you need to structure your time around naps etc now. She isn't able to turn off her ADHD just because you had a baby though. She, with a lot of effort, can probably manage to meet you closer to the agreed time but that not her ADHD going away, that's her using a tremendous amount of effort to do something that comes very easily to other people.

There are people with ADHD who go to huge efforts to make sure their ADHD doesn't become other people's problem.

And then there's people like the OP's friend.

Diva behaviour, even Marilyn Monroe had the sack eventually for repeated late shows
its so unfathomably rude, ill mannered, uncaring, insulting really, as though your
time has no value

I think I would reply 'there wasn't a 'specific time window' there was a specific time! It was xx'

Also, I think I'd probably be most pissed off at the blatant lie of 'leaving now'. Clearly she wasn't!

I have severe ADHD and time blindness but even I think she is completely unreasonable, so ADHD is not a good enough excuse. I would never do this, at best she should have rang you when you messaged to say you were leaving to ask if she could change the time if she wasn't ready and you would have been reasonable to say no and not wasted your time. It's hard juggling a 4 month old and naps/feeds/packing for them.

A friend did similar to me when I had a baby, it was a lovely sunny day and I'd arranged to meet her in a nearby park, she took so long to even leave and then eventually messaged me from a nearby pub (she wasn't local) to say she had gone there instead. She never did meet my baby who is now 7. I think ADHD people without children are absolutely clueless and this friendship won't work.

Unless it's for a very good reason, then yes it's taking the piss and YANBU. Generally just being fashionably late is plain rude.

I have one friend who is regularly 45 minutes late. I think the latest she’s ever been was about an hour and a half… I usually just also arrive late when I’m seeing her and she knows I won’t stand on ceremony so eg if she’s late for a meal, we will all start eating without her…

Honestly this situation wouldn’t bother me that much and I certainly wouldn’t have cancelled, but it seems that’s a minority view.

“specific time window’ in regards to our meeting”

This response would really get me worked up, that’s her gaslighting you to make you in the wrong, you the baddie instead of her being rude.

I think you should “remind” her little babies shouldn’t be out in the cold and need regular naps and feeds so from now own (cough cough) your meetings will need to be more on time for naps etc etc

Your friend is really rude

That’s very disrespectful OP. Equally I have no respect for people who are constantly late.

Thanks. I’ve always been very supportive of her struggles linked to ADHD. It was quite clear that I was going to the park specifically to meet her, but it is probably worth another conversation. I’ve always been accommodating of her lateness but 45 minutes late with a baby in tow is not okay with me.

She was rude especially referring to a time window. It might be how she justifies always late in her head.

If she has ADHD being chronically late is often a symptom. Often people with ADHD are time blind and are oblivious and late or get ultra stressed and arrive extremely early.

If you arrange again, and I hope you do, just arrive 30/45 mins after the planned meet up time. This way she'll always be nearly there and you won't be struggling.

I once sent a formal invitation for a black tie event to my friend with adhd. Their invite was the only one to say it was an hour earlier that it actually was as I knew they would miss the event otherwise.

I'm also ADHD and my husband uses this strategy. When we are going somewhere together we are never late.

I cannot abide lateness unless there is a genuine reason, eg a traffic jam.

Part of my business involves people arriving at my workplace for an appointment at specific times. Most are very good at this but one or two have told me their ADHD prevents them from being on time. My schedule is tight, I cannot overrun if we start late. It is interesting to see that when someone is billed for an hour when they actually only got 15 minutes then they are able to be on time at the next appointment. It is apparently acceptable to waste someone else's time but not to waste their own money.

OP I'm sorry about your friend, hopefully you have other ones to spend time with.

It does seem like gaslighting. I’m sure I will be portrayed as high maintenance and unreasonable to mutual friends, which is very annoying. A genuine apology would have been appreciated, not this ‘time window’ rubbish!

Of course it’s rude, doesn’t matter what diagnosis she has. That’s her knowledge to help her in life to navigate it. It’s not her excuse to be selfish and rude to others.

I read somewhere though that an effective way of dealing with this is:
Tell her specifically how it made you feel. Not generally. For example: ‘It made me feel frustrated and like my time wasn’t as valuable as yours’.
Tell her what the behaviour was. ‘When you were late to the park, and also that you seemed to think this was OK.’
And tell her what your concern is about the future.
’I’m worried that if this keeps happening, I’m going to keep feeling frustrated and that will mean our friendship is put under a lot of strain.’

And then just leave it at that. If she comes under excuses just repeat it, gently you don’t have to be nasty or anything just say ‘yes I know you have ADHD but I felt frustrated, I felt my time was wasted, and I don’t want our friendship to be under strain if it keeps happening.’

Thanks, that’s a helpful perspective. Sorry you’ve experienced similar! My friend has lots of friends with babies, including her best friend but I think she has been more distanced from them. I do wonder if perhaps there is more going on here, and that being around babies is difficult for her for various reasons. But I did say I was happy to meet her on my own too. I guess I’ll just need to see how things pan out from here!

My kids and I are all ASD/ADHD - as a result we always plan to get to places early because we’re afraid of p*ssing people off by being late and are terrified of losing friends. We faff, forget things, have to make return trips to the house/car as a matter of course with our ADHD, so the onus is on us to adapt so others are not inconvenienced eg by prepping to leave early.

I get she has ADHD but if she's smart enough to complete a PhD, she's smart enough to put strategies in place to manage her difficulties.

ADHD could excuse (or at least explain) her lateness (although tbh she's clearly aware of how it impacts her, and most people with the same issue tend to try and put things in place to limit it as much as possible - particularly when it will affect things that are important to them - presumably she manages to get to her job/catch a flight vaguely on time?), but it doesn't excuse her rudeness.

The only appropriate response to you cancelling because she was so late was a heartfelt apology, not a crap blame-shifting sulky comment.

I wouldn't worry about how she describes the incident to friends, any normal person will hear "time window" and "waiting around with young baby for 45 mins" and think "you twat!" (her!) rather than you being "high maintenance!"

Thank you! I’m more annoyed by her response I think now, rather than her lateness. Her initial response was actually to ask if I’m free Monday instead (I’m not, and had told her previously that Friday was the only day I could do). When I said no, in came the pseudo apology and ‘I didn’t realise there was a specific time window ??’ comment/question

I have ADHD and would never dream of behaving like that. I work so hard to avoid lateness that it means I am often early.

If I am late though, then it means I am rushing around sweating and stressed and trying to get there on time, and would be very apologetic when I arrived - not talking 45 minutes either, that’s ridiculous. Your friend should say sorry.

The thing about the time window sounds weird. Unless she thought you were sort of in the park anyway, or meeting others, or in the park cafe?
If she doesn't have a child she might not fully grasp the notion of lingering about outdoors being much less feasible.
Can you ask her to pop round yours, giving one of her beloved time windows, like come at 2, but really she could come at 6.
Sone people are chaotic and always late. It is like a kind of anxiety issue.
Try not to hold it against her but make sure you aren't wating anywhere uncomfortable for her again.