To think being 45 mins late takes the piss

[Ivorymoon]

Arranged to meet a friend in the park today to meet my 4 month old baby. Agreed the day in advance and that we would meet in the morning, confirmed the time this morning and I messaged her again as I was leaving. As I got to the park I received a message from her saying she was just leaving. 15 minutes pass and she still wasn’t there, I message again asking her ETA and she says she will be another half hour - and she would still need to find a parking spot and walk to the park. At which point I decided to cancel - I was sick of waiting around, baby would need feeding soon, I also have horrible post partum joint pain which makes standing / walking for long periods very difficult.

So as not to drip feed - friend is lovely, has ADHD and is often late, I thought she might be more mindful as I now have a baby. I don’t mind waiting 10 mins or so but over half an hour is ridiculous without good reason IMO. I’ve been disappointed my friend hasn’t arranged to see me/ meet baby sooner as we both live in the same city, but she’s been very stressed and preoccupied with her PhD write up. Perhaps my disappointment is colouring my view on this.

Friend said she didn’t realise there was a ‘specific time window’ in regards to our meeting after I cancelled and explained why. I’m baffled by this as we did set a time.

AIBU to think being 45 mins late is rude and that it was fair enough of me to cancel?

@Ivorymoon I voted that you were unreasonable purely because you know what your friend is like, you know you're still recovering from having your baby, and you set both of you up to fail.

Your life has changed massively since having a baby. Her life hasn't changed at all, and it's not going to.

She can't manage time, and you either have to accept that, or walk away from the friendship.

I'm not saying it's reasonable you should stand outside in a park with a newborn for 45 minutes. Rather, I'm saying you should only invite this friend to occasions where lateness is not going to be an issue, e.g. joining you when you're going to be out 'doing' something already or dropping by at your home, and when it's not going to ruin your day if she shows up late or not at all.

You're friends already, so I assume she has lots of lovely qualities that you like, and that balance the fact she's never going to be the sort of friend who can meet you for something time-sensitive like going to see a show or film together.

I'm going out for lunch tomorrow with a couple of friends, one of whom I know will be 30 to 45 minutes late. I've set the time so if she shows up on time, I'll be able to eat, and if she doesn't, I won't be hangry yet. I've also organised the meal with another mutual friend who does show up on time, and the two of us will be quite content to have a coffee and natter whilst we wait.

When you know someone well enough to be their friend, you work around what they can do, you don't try to change them.

Why would you choose to meet someone in a park anyway?

Especially if you're concerned about your baby being in the cold.

Why not arrange to meet her in a cafe.

Or if you are already in a park, when she said she was going to be nother 30 mins, you don't have to sit there and wait in the park. Go and sit in a cafe beside the park! No one is forcing you to sit in the cold

She doesn't have to sit anywhere. She rightly left 😂

What a stupid comment. It isn't at all the point ffs

She keeps saying that "she had to sit in the cold".

No she didn't.

She's being a drama llama. Go into a cafe out of the cold

My kids are teens now so they baby stage is a BIT of a blue, but I distinctly remember at least one of mine being a screamy baby.

So the idea of sitting in a cafe for 45 minutes listening to her screeches bounce off the wall until a friend deigns to turn up (or not) sounds insane to me.

Admittedly, I have no idea what the OP's baby was like. But life was always easier for me at that age if I could push the baby around in a buggy.

I'd always expect the person with the 4 month old to be late ... And would be extra careful not to be late myself if meeting someone with a baby , with no one else there.

I'm not very good at being on time and am often 5 to 10 minutes late but this scenario is one where I'd be as conscious of time as for a medical appointment. If I was going to their house or meeting a group I may well be a bit late.

There are 2 types of perpetually late people - the ones who do their best to make sure the other person isn't kept waiting (they text to keep informed, they suggest they will text as they're leaving, they suggest meeting in places where waiting is less of an issue), and the sort who just don't care.

So when you're meeting people, has everyone that has come to meet you, been bang on time , to the minute?

Every time?

When you've met friends for a night out?
When you've met friends for coffee.?

You’ve made some incorrect assumptions here. My friend does have form for being late, but it’s never been an issue before as it’s always been 10 mins or so which is not a big deal for me. Most things we have done during our friendship is time sensitive e.g dinners out, shows, cinema, weekends away. Therefore I was absolutely not ‘setting us both up to fail’ by suggesting a completely normal thing that we usually do together. However this time I had a new baby and she was much later than she usually is, with no explanation and no apology.

I don't have friends who are rude and/or twats so if someone is going to be late, they.... Drum roll.... Tell me. And apologise.

She could be lounging at the ritz and the friend is still rude. You're missing the point with irrelevancey whether it's deliberate or not

@Sashamalia this is what's called a straw man argument. The OP hasn't posted a thread saying she expects every single person to arrive at any event bang on time, not a minute late.

She's posted about a specific scenario, and it isn't that.

Again, you appear confused. My friend did not tell me how late she was going to be when I arrived at the park, so I was happy to wait as I thought she would be along shortly. Upon receiving her text after already waiting 15 minutes, stating she would be another 30 minutes, I made the decision to leave. I would not have waited 45 minutes in a cafe either, as it’s a waste of my time. And there wasn’t a cafe nearby.

Many people are ND, myself included but it really makes no difference because this is not an excuse for treating people poorly. I also struggle with all the issues you’ve stated but I don’t feel the need to shout about it to win an argument. In reality, people don’t have to make allowances for poor behaviour for any reason. It’s our personal responsibility to adapt to social norms even when it doesn’t come naturally because at the end of the day, it’s no one else’s problem and not everyone will put up with being berated nor should they because a person is ND. As I said, huge difference between being direct and being offensive. It’s telling how it’s okay for you to be rude, sorry “direct” and call a newly post-partum disabled mother precious and she should accept it because you’ve “said it and if she doesn’t like it so what” your words not mine. All because you think she shouldn’t have been in a park but should have been in a cafe instead and it’s okay to be disrespectful of your friends time because in Nordic countries people leave their babies outside in the cold. What a load of nonsense that is because both are irrelevant to the point. However, I said you should be mindful of the way you come across to others because it can be very damaging particularly to a new mother. I have a difference of opinion to you and I should fuck off because the truth is uncomfortable. Double standards at its finest and your reaction is just as rude as the OPs friend. This isn’t the first time I’ve witnessed you being unnecessarily rude and insulting to people on threads by the way, it’s something I’ve picked up on a few times I’ve just commented on it now. There’s a few who like to bully others on MN and you’re one of the usernames that’s stuck. You seem to want to go out of your way to be argumentative even when there’s no logic or need to it. That’s why I deduced that you must think you’re cool to always be so tiringly hellbent on having a differing opinion to everyone else.

Surprised to hear someone diagnosed with autism describe themselves as having Aspergers.

Some people are plain rude, some have reasons like ADHD, time blindness etc. You can try and talk to her about time, or only arrange meet-ups where her being late won’t impact you so much.

I had a friend of 20+ years who thought nothing of leaving me waiting for her and never apologised. I’ve heard every excuse you could think of, and I finally found the confidence to end the friendship (it was just one of a number of things that affected this decision). Some memorable ones were:

Supposed to be meeting me at my home at 6pm to go out to a restaurant. She text just before to say she was on the bus and it was running late, cue another 7 HOURS of text after text saying the bus is stuck in traffic, broken down, not sure what’s going on etc. I finally went to bed after midnight, only to get a call at around 1.30am to say she’s not coming after all - clearly drunk and the background noise suggested she was at a party or in a nightclub etc. No apology.

Kept me waiting outside a tube station for 2 hours, again text after text with excuses. No apology.

Arranged to arrive at my home for midday to go out for lunch - she lived around 1 hour 15 mins drive away. She text mid morning and said see you soon. No sign of her around midday, text her a bit later and she finally text me at 1.30pm to say she wasn’t coming as she was still in bed with a bad cold. She should have left by about 10.45am to get to mine! No apology.

These are just the tip of a huge iceberg of examples. After a conversation with a friend whose child has ADHD, I read up about inattentive ADHD in women and omg she ticks pretty much every box. However, for me the damage is done with the friendship for many reasons.

No way would my baby have let me wait with them in the park for 45mins without cracking the shits. Good for you to cancel. I have a 15min window for my tardy ADHD friends and I think that's generous. Any later than that and I'm fucking off home.

@southtower

Why surprised? It was a diagnosis for a long time and the diagnosis many people received when their autism was first identified. Loads of people decide to continue to use it because it feels part of their identity.

Indeed not having the term has created issues with those caring for people who have profoundly disabling Autism feeling that they have lost a clear descriptor, with Autism becoming the single term.

Not everyone feels the history of the name is relevant to them.

"My tardy ADHD friends". Oh dear.

YANBU op.
Why is her time more important than yours?
I have a friend like this, known her 30 years and only ever known her to be on time once. I have adjusted our meet ups now by arranging a time half an hour before l actually want to see her cos l know that's how late she will be but l really shouldn't have to do that.

Could not be arsed with her to be honest. However, if you want to keep her as a friend, despite her rude lack of apology and apparent sense of entitlement, maybe you have to manage her the way I managed Ann Marie back before mobile phones were standard. She was always shockingly late, so I started telling her we were meeting half an hour earlier than we were. She was still usually 30-45 minutes late, but it was better than before. If going out in a group, we changed meeting spots, she would just have to join us at the pub when she got there, though she used to complain she didn't like walking in on her own, if seeing a movie we'd tell her we would keep her a seat but if she wasn't in the queue when we got there she'd have to get her own ticket. Eventually, the friendship petered out as she was pretty selfish in other ways too, but I am guessing that's not the case with the OP's friend. You will have to change meeting places at the very least if you don't want to be left sitting around waiting again. Can you meet at her house?

As for the "But it's ADHD!!!!!!" apologists - I have a couple of mental health challenges. So what I do is make sure not to take on obligations I cannot meet, or I reframe the issues and find ways around those issues. It is not the job of other people to manage adults, put their own boundaries and needs aside for other adults, put up with antisocial, unpleasant or rude behaviour from other adults unless they choose to do so or feel some great personal sense of duty and obligation.

As I said, I could not be arsed with this at all, but it sounds like she won't change so you'll have to work around her issue somehow - and no, you are in no way manner shape or form being unreasonable. Of course.

I had a 'friend' who used to arrange to meet me at a certain time/place... then either not show up or say they were just leaving (say 20 or 30 minutes after the arranged time of meeting - they lived 10 minutes away at the time). This was my oldest's godmother/my childhood best friend so I cut her a lot of slack...

Until my grandmother pointed out that we are on time to meet those we actually care about.

@Ivorymoon - and I mean this kindly, but this isn't someone who cares about you, As evidence by the fact that she kept a 4 month old baby out in the cold, whilst you hung around on the off-chance of fitting in with her "window of opportunity".

The above meetings - because I stupidly gave my friend more than one opportunity - I had a special needs baby/toddler in tow. Pre mobile phones as well, so not even a chance to check if 'friend' was still coming, or not. My grandmother's words struck home - I politely made other arrangements, or would only meet 'friend' with others (ie, large group) - and when she threw her toys out of the pram, pointed out that it was because of her own attitude towards me. Her response? Her time/life was more important than mine ever could be.

Erm... nope.

Oldest is 27 now. Haven't spoken to 'friend' in a good 25 or 26 years. Life keeps turning, the friendship was not the be all and end all that 'friend' made it out to be, I survived its absolute end.

Do you know what I hated more than the lateness,it was the lies.
I'll be there in 30 minutes knowing full well they hadn't even left the house.

Maybe all these time blindness people should stand outside in the freezing cold for hours with somebody lying to you.

Having ADHD or another neurodiversity is not a get out if jail free card to treat friends like shit, especially post partum friends with small babies and joint pain.

I always try to be early but always within a ten min window of an arranged time. If I think I will be late I will message ahead, ideally before the other person is leaving. The only time it would be acceptable for someone to be so late is if they have a significantly longer journey where hold ups may occur on route.

Even when I’ve planned a long journey - ie both parties travelling over an hour we’ve all made it within a few mins of eachother!