To want every women in England to vote Tory at the GR

[Hurrydash]

So I don't agree with Angela Rayner's description of the Tories as scum, but I get her drift and if she'd been more tempered in her language I probably would have bought in.

HOWEVER

For me - and actually should be got everyone - the only real issue at the next GE is freedom of speech/women's rights.

I see Labour as the destroyer of these and so must vote against them. The only meaningful way to do this is to vote Tory which I am reluctant but prepared to do.

Is this unreasonable?

Happy to be convinced - for real not just words - if there is evidence Labour (Starmer 1 in 1000 women have a dick) may see the light before the GE.

If that's your 'evidence', you'd better look for something else to try to prove your point.

Not having RTFT, I read back in the quote history attached to your post & can see where a reasoned debate was misunderstood (at best) by another poster & it's now grown into an attack on MN itself.

Move on. This is a thread about the next general election.

Hopefully for the good of the country, more women will demonstrate more intellectual prowess than you do at the GE.

I really want to be able to vote labour. They are just making it very difficult.

Tbh it started with Brexit (always been a labour voter and even member). I was pissed off with the lackluster efforts of the labour party during the campaign. I know it was the Tories' clusterfuck but they were hardly a shining example either.

Then at the next general election, when everyone was encouraged to vote labour or lib dem to show they didn't support Brexit. Only for a senior Labour MP to say that every single labour vote was an endorsement of Brexit. Even though there was still considerable infighting within the party about it. The end result was that my vote was perceived as a Brexit vote.

This has very much influenced my voting since. I might not be massively bothered by many party policies but I have to make sure that might vote is not an endorsement of something I'm really against.

Add to that labour's stance on women's rights. Labour MPs stating male rapists should absolutely be in women's prisons if they identify as women.

The general sneering at women trying to make a point and being dismissed as bigots. Like some things in society are just settled and should not be discussed further. This in itself frustrates me as it leaves a wide open goal for the tories to capitalise on.

Couple that with the general air of not really wanting to be in power and you've got major issues. Now, I think people like Kier Starmer do want to be in power, but a significant number of labour don't want it. They say they do but they don't. They don't want to do the work. They prefer to criticise from the side lines and pontificate about the nature of socialism. Which in part explains the disconnect in traditional labour areas and why some went blue last time.

For the last ten years at least they've being going through some sort of schism but a lot don't want to really tackle it or acknowledge it.

Which gets distilled down into many people are not voting for labour. They are voting not tory which doesn't translate into labour being in a strong position.

Anyway. Apologies for the long reply.

The mouthpiece of the Tory party and the UK’s most highly respected political expert disagree with you:

BRITAIN’S foremost polling guru has said there is a “99 per cent chance” of Labour winning the next election.

Prof Sir John Curtice said that it is “clearly” very unlikely the Tories will be in power after the autumn, when Rishi Sunak is widely expected to call a vote.

The political scientist also said he believes Labour will be in a “much stronger position” to form a minority government in the event of a hung parliament, as the Tories “have no friends in the House of Commons”.

It comes as a new survey for The Telegraph has found the Conservatives have sunk to their lowest poll rating since the “bloody aftermath” of Liz Truss’s misfiring mini-budget.

Just 24 per cent of people polled by Savanta said they planned to vote Tory, compared with 44 per cent who backed Labour.

What does anybody think Labour will/can do about any of that? Where would the money come from?

There won’t be any more of our money going on pointless ideology for a start - have you seen what they’ve spent on HS2 and Rwanda?

That was a pledge and I don't think they ever enacted it (although they did expel some members when Corbyn was leader).

Worth noting Starmer never signed up to it. The party is very different now to what it was under Corbyn. Hence Owen Jones leaving.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/13/labour-leadership-contenders-split-over-trans-group-pledge-card

Yeah but only because the woke left forced them to. Or something.

It could partly come from putting up taxes, which is unpopular but is also a traditionally Labour policy.

You seem a bit confused about Brexit. Both Labour and Tories have significant numbers of Brexit supporters. If you wanted to express an anti-Brexit vote, the Lib Dems has very clearly articulated this as their policy.

CBA to read the whole thread but you must be fucking joking.

Successive Conservative governments have been a disaster for women and children, highest levels of child poverty ever, rape effectively legalised.

It makes me angry to even type those words, the thought that they have the interests of women at heart is ridiculous.

Not a bloody chance.

I care way more about women than a simple definition. I care about their healthcare, I care about their rights to bodily autonomy, I care about their rights to be safe on the streets, I care about there being a adequately funded police force to protect them, I care about their right to be believed when they have been raped, I care about their access to affordable childcare, I care about menopausal women.

If you don't care about the above, and only care about a description, then knock yourself out and vote Tory. But do not say you are voting Tory on the basis of supporting women. Because you aren't.

Good question, although expectations on extra money funding or provided always seems high on these threads

The sort of answer I'm looking for is a straight one: what will/can Labour do & where's the money coming from?

Previous Labour governments have not been perfect either, btw.

Oh god....'Transfolk'...😂

Very well said

This thread has been immensely cheering to read. Thanks for starting it OP

This is the type of thinking that has ruined the country. Broken NHS and schools, the economy in tatters, the Tories syphoning public money to their mates. But you know ....(insert one minor issue with Labour here).. vote for 5 more years of this shit

Well for a start, the most urgent policy priority at every turn won't be funnelling as much cash as possible to the already wealthy.
Millions won't be given to the likes of Mone for fuck all.
And hopefully we won't be wasting any more on not sending anyone but politicians to Rwanda.
Just for a start.

The GRA enables and underpins gender ideology. You’ll find the same in countries with similar legislation. Some go further than others Canada etc and you can see it with puberty blockers, only a few have stopped them

So if Labour aren't perfect we should vote Tory regardless of the shitshow they have caused in this country? I'm not following the logic.

I've seen nothing from Labour that convinces me anything will be better under them, and quite a lot which suggests things will be worse..

They seem equally likely to set up structures that cream off funding for the 1% whilst things crumble - PFI and the expenses scandal (MP housing- where many Labour politicians got rich quick by flipping properties in London using taxpayer funded 'expenses').

No plans to renationalise the railway / water etc. They're even keener on unaccountable arms length control and top down diktat (like MATs) than the Tories. At least with the Tories it's 'market forces' so there's more wriggle room do something different if things are going wrong by going with a different provider (of course this doesn't work for things like railways, which is why they should be renationalised IMO).

Most politicians are out for personal gain and not that interested in the needs of the electorate. Labour openly sneer at people's views on things like immigration, even when founded in a reality of not enough GP appointments / school places etc. They're not willing to debate, they just label anyone who speaks up as racist.

The few politicians that care about normal people are spread across all parties.

Am hoping for a decent independent to vote for but I won't vote Labour - unless Rosie Duffield or a few other decent ones move into my constituency

Well to be fair sending some of those politicians to Rwanda wasn't a bad shout. The issue was letting them come back.

I'd vote Labour just because of Angela Rayner alone, quite frankly!

Oh and I see a lot more to worry about in terms of removal of free speech with Labour. The Tories seem to be happy for us normals to say what we like as long as we don't interrupt their cash flow. Labour seem to need to get rich whilst also pretending they are morally superior so controlling everyone else's speech and deciding what is 'right'.