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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want every women in England to vote Tory at the GR

1000 replies

Hurrydash · 28/03/2024 02:01

So I don't agree with Angela Rayner's description of the Tories as scum, but I get her drift and if she'd been more tempered in her language I probably would have bought in.

HOWEVER

For me - and actually should be got everyone - the only real issue at the next GE is freedom of speech/women's rights.

I see Labour as the destroyer of these and so must vote against them. The only meaningful way to do this is to vote Tory which I am reluctant but prepared to do.

Is this unreasonable?

Happy to be convinced - for real not just words - if there is evidence Labour (Starmer 1 in 1000 women have a dick) may see the light before the GE.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Wonderfulstuff · 28/03/2024 11:49

I love nothing more than when a Tory threatens doom to anyone not voting Tory as if we have been all living through the golden years.

Nothing in my life has been improved in the last 14 years.

  • I pay more tax than I ever did under a labour government
  • My pay doesn't go as far - the government could have taken more action to mitigate the COL crisis as seen in other countries but it chose to allow mainly foreign owned companies prosper at our cost.
  • Schools have less funding and the flogging off of schools to MAT is a disaster in the making.
  • My county council has less funding and has had to cut back nearly all children and family services including selling off of properties (i.e. they're never coming back)
  • NHS services are the worst I've experienced in my 40 odd years
  • Can't get GP appointments and when you can you can't get a prescription filled
  • The cost of getting work on public transport is now taking a higher proportion of my salary for a pretty terrible service
  • Crime has increased in my local area and police presence has decreased. Some of the police services have been merged with the next county which means less police covering greater geographical areas
  • Over development in our local area without upgrading infrastructure means that water shortages are now a reality for may homes in the summer and standpipes are a common sight. Additionally local children aren't able to get places in local school as there has been little investment in additional school places.
  • Wages have stagnated

I could go on further but I find it hard to understand why anyone would vote Tory again at this election. Unless you are in the 0.01% of billionaires of course... or maybe think you are.

Acapulco12 · 28/03/2024 11:49

Soapboxqueen · 28/03/2024 11:48

I won't ever vote Tory.

However, I'm not voting labour either. They've made it clear they don't want my vote.

They also can't give a reason to vote for them. They're just banking on the not tory vote.

I've spoiled by ballot for the last few years.

Out of curiosity, why do you not want to vote Labour? You don’t have to reply, of course.

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 28/03/2024 11:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I think you're confusing me with someone else because that's the exact opposite of what I've said.

shrodingersvaccine · 28/03/2024 11:51

If your concern truly is freedom of speech and womens rights then why would you vote Tory when...

They introduced the Protest Bill (Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022), giving sweeping powers to police to criminalise protesting and includes allowing the police to stop protests if they cause 'Prolonged disruption of access to any essential goods or services, such as money, food, water, energy, or fuel' and allowing the government to define 'prolonged or serious disruption' at will. Arguably rendering all protest impotent.

Voted down making misogyny a hate crime

Failed to act on promises to force the police to prioritise violent crimes such as rape and domestic abuse (Braverman), introduce a rape and sexual abuse helpline (Raab)

Rejected the Women and Equalities Committee’s recommendation to make menopause a protected characteristic under the Equality Act

Continued to allow inflation to disproportionately affect women - Childcare up by 4.1% (Men also pay for childcare, of course, but women tend to be the ones who stay home in heterosexual couples that can’t afford to pay for it. And, they also make up the majority of single parents) ONS Inflation Gender Gap data showing womens clothing essentials up by as much as 75% (shoes, vs 14% for mens shoes) compared to mens 33% (tshirts, up 27% for women), period products up 11%

Made Maria Caulfield, a Tory MP who supported cutting the abortion time limit and voted against buffer zones outside clinics, Minister for Women

... and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head.

By all means, vote for whoever you want but base it on observable fact. These are hard examples of how the Tories do not protect freedom of speech or womens rights. They will not protect you, they will not work for you, they do not have your interests at heart, whether you were born a woman or not. How you can take anything else from their track record is frankly, beyond me.

Whenwillitgetwarm · 28/03/2024 11:53

So I guess this means Tory HQ have kicked off their local election campaign. Desperate and transparent stuff. Note to Tory’s- you need a better team.

Expect to see more of this until May then another ramp up until the General Election.

Exasperatednow · 28/03/2024 11:53

Nothing would get me to vote Tory.
And if you think they support women then you are delusional.

mimblewimble · 28/03/2024 11:54

I spent a couple of years in GC spaces on twitter. I know from personal experience it's easy to get sucked into that issue online and feel absolute outrage.

I have plenty of concerns around male violence, self-id and so on. However, I still think it's a minor issue compared with other policies that deeply affect women, and I would still rather approach this issue in discussion with a left-wing government.

BronwenTheBrave · 28/03/2024 11:56

Hurrydash · 28/03/2024 03:13

Wow!

Loads of stuff from Labour supporters highlighting how rubbish the Tories have been.

Yes agreed.

BUT

What are Labour's policies on women's rights??

Take a look and come back with something positive - if you can.

Well there is this I suppose:
https://labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/

Home

Home - Labour Women's Declaration

10/11/2023

https://labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/

BringMeSunshineAllDayLong · 28/03/2024 11:57

SoreAndTired1 · 28/03/2024 11:09

One man in a woman's space is ONE TOO MANY. Already there are accounts on this very site of girls not going to school when they're on the periods because they have no girls only toilets. The ripple effect of this is enormous. People simply don't have the critical thinking to understand how serious and wide-reaching this is. Another poster said their girl never changes their pad at school, and they flood. Another poster last year said they restrict fluids during the work day (thus risking a UTI) so they don't have to use the all-sex toilet.

This is a MASSIVE issue. But people are too stubbornly narrow-minded to use cognitive reasoning and critical thinking.

It's a massive issue. So why the fuck haven't the Tories sorted out in the last 14 years. Why aren't they doing it now?
Because they don't care and are just using womens rights to gain a few votes. That alone makes me angry.

Thelnebriati · 28/03/2024 11:57

Thats a group of women within the Labour party. How much influence do they have? They can't even get a stall at Conference.

L1ttledrummergirl · 28/03/2024 11:58

More of this lot?
More of the erosion to womens rights and freedoms?
More women and children relying on charity or facing starvation?
More running down of the NHS affecting women's health?
More libraries closing, schools being run down?
More housing crisis?
More shit in the water?
More tories, there supporters, friends and families getting rich at the countries expense?

You do you, I want something better. The tories can get to fuck as far as I'm concerned.

Matronic6 · 28/03/2024 11:59

Lwrenn · 28/03/2024 11:36

When was I patronising? If you think being pleasant and chatty is patronising you must be an absolute fucking gem.

If Labour get in because I vote them in, then I've blood on my hands when they continue to support the decimation of Palestinians.

I'd rather a single meaningless protest against something I believe in, as opposed to voting to keep tories out when to me it's like getting out of ted bundys car, just to accept a ride home from Fred West.

Anyway, thanks for you excellent input and invaluable advice.

You're welcome 😊

Juliansfunkyshoes · 28/03/2024 12:00

This topic has been done to fucking DEATH.

No, I wont throw women under the bus and vote Tories.

Thanks.

CactusMactus · 28/03/2024 12:01

Green x

Gilead · 28/03/2024 12:02

In 2023 the chief exec of British Gas had his salary increased from 4 million to 8.2 million. I’m severely disabled, on benefits and cannot afford to heat my home. The Tories allowed this to happen. They can fuck right off, I’ll be voting Labour.

CaribouCarafe · 28/03/2024 12:03

SoreAndTired1 · 28/03/2024 11:09

One man in a woman's space is ONE TOO MANY. Already there are accounts on this very site of girls not going to school when they're on the periods because they have no girls only toilets. The ripple effect of this is enormous. People simply don't have the critical thinking to understand how serious and wide-reaching this is. Another poster said their girl never changes their pad at school, and they flood. Another poster last year said they restrict fluids during the work day (thus risking a UTI) so they don't have to use the all-sex toilet.

This is a MASSIVE issue. But people are too stubbornly narrow-minded to use cognitive reasoning and critical thinking.

Or perhaps I'm using my critical thinking to look beyond a single issue and consider that factors such as the economy, our healthcare system, and the mindset our government have a far bigger impact on the welfare of women and girls. How many girls will be flooding due to poverty? I guarantee a far higher count than those flooding due to the potential presence of a male in a bathroom.

The tories have had over a decade to resolve the issues around trans rights, what makes you think they're the party to tackle it over the next few years?

And please don't assume I don't see the issues around women's rights, I'm speaking as someone who was very active on twitter 5 years ago in the run up to the GRA and pro gender critical beliefs.

AdamRyan · 28/03/2024 12:05

SoreAndTired1 · 28/03/2024 10:25

That has nothing to do with trans people, no government would have prevented him he was dressed as a man! What he claimed is irrelevant and had no bearing on him being caught and punished.

You're missing the point. Any male who says he is transwoman IS transwoman. They can't be questioned. And, he was emboldened to enter because he knew all he had to do was claim to be transwoman.

It isn’t legally in. In reality anyone can identify as anything and walk into public spaces in most places in the world. In very tightly controlled environments where there are vulnerable people eg prisons no one can just do that. Labour have said they don’t support self ID. You want to think they do to justify your right wing voting inclinations.

When women are PUNISHED for calling a man out, that is self-ID. Whether you want to admit it or not. When Labour say TWAW, they are saying they support self ID. Pure, plain and simple. And like most feminists, I am left wing. Interesting though you feel the need to assume I am a right wing voter.

Where is this commonly happening?

Everywhere. In many countries.

Is this a daily problem blighting the lives of lots of women? Who? Where?

Yes, it is, the risk of men in our spaces is a daily risk. It's a risk I, as a rape survivor, weigh up every single day. As do Domestic Violence survivors. We think about it every.single.day.

Bryson is in Scotland and in a male prison.

He was originally in a female prison (and it doesn't matter that he was 'segregated').

‘Any man’ can still be called out and be removed from these spaces.

WRONG! See the swimming centre example, also Planet Fitness, etc etc.

The occasional trans woman minding their own business in a toilet or changing room

Transwomen are MEN. 92% of them retain their penis and testicles. They are men, with cock and balls... only in a dress, instead of a suit and tie. Minding their business or not, they are still men accessing womens spaces. And, as you prove, we cannot all them out or remove them.

There have been transitioned people in toilets for decades under all governments. There will always be some.

No there haven't been. Because almost none of them actually transition and they always stand out, and we women could back then, call them out. And regardless, even if they wre there 'for decades' (which is a lie), that doesn't make it right. The 'they were always there' is not the defensive supporting argument or justification you think it is.

Most have said the occasional (again rare) trans woman isn’t a problem.

I can assure you it IS a problem to the RAPE VICTIM or BATTERED WOMAN who comes across them, even if the ingratiating person that runs the place says it isn't. There have been 4 different rapes by transwomen in 4 (four) separate battered womens hostels in Canada (yes I know, not UK but transwomen have dangerously higher patterns of sexually offending universally) alone. How many would be enough for you? Give us a number where you would think excluding these men are justified.

Any male who says he is transwoman IS transwoman. Factually incorrect. We don't have self-ID in this country. The only legal way to be a trans woman in this context is through a GRC. This person was a man.

They can't be questioned. Factually incorrect. Anyone can question them, we have free speech. And the police can question anybody about anything related to a crime.

And, he was emboldened to enter because he knew all he had to do was claim to be a transwoman. Unlikely. More likely he was clutching at straws to try to get out of being prosecuted once he was caught. If he'd been "emboldened" by trans status he would have made more effort to look lime he was actually trans.

Some men are sex offenders. They do invasive and coercive things. This will happen whether or not we legally allow transition.

windowframer · 28/03/2024 12:05

The human tendency to look for simple solutions to complex problems is as old as humanity itself, and probably our own worst enemy. But still, in a world of impending climate catastrophe, plummeting living standards, rocketing inequality and the rise of right wing authoritarianism both in the UK and globally, anybody thinking freedom of speech/women's rights is the ONLY issue to address at a general election has got to win some kind of prize for sheer self-destructive stupidity.

And that's before even getting on to whether the party that oversaw getting us to where we currently are in terms of women's rights, and that has brought in anti-democratic legislation to criminalise peaceful protest, are actually our saviours on this issue anyway.

Not much point in answering whether YABU as that would imply a capacity to reason in the first place.

CormorantStrikesBack · 28/03/2024 12:05

A vote for the tories is throwing everyone under the bus….apart from fat cat millionaire business owners.

youll be screwing not just women but normal working people of both sexes, disabled, young parents, kids because the education system is fucked, anyone who is ill because the nhs is fucked.

so no thanks. I’m under no illusion that Tory land is a utopia for women.

poetryandwine · 28/03/2024 12:07

anotherside · 28/03/2024 10:50

And Sir Keir Starmer will do nothing about any of that as he isn’t any more left wing than some parts of the Tory party. Anyway, we are seeing economic growth again.

To the contrary, it is reported today that the latest ONS figures confirm that the UK was officially in recession (two consecutive quarters of negative growth) in Dec 2023. That is the latest data available.

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 28/03/2024 12:09

Devonbabs · 28/03/2024 11:05

But they aren’t going to be able to fund all those things they want to do. Without a massive tax hike on the general population. At this point the NHS doesn’t just need more cash, it needs a massive overhaul - it’s no longer fit for purpose giving it more cash is pouring money into a black hole.

The problems faced by schools, the nhs, the police are problems of society as a whole. It’s a broken society with too much immigration - our local schooling has virtually collapsed with kids being shipped nils away even though they live in catchment, schools hang balloon forms - my sons school had to create 2 new forms per year. Lack of discipline, mental health issues, lack of consistent moral compass (often caused by a push towards multiculturalism- which I think has been shown not to work). Our local hospitals are full. 12 hour A&E waits common, large amounts of people who can’t speak English.

Tax hikes aren’t a bad thing if you get value

AdamRyan · 28/03/2024 12:09

SoreAndTired1 · 28/03/2024 11:04

My point is that is rare than men will go to the lengths of identifying as a different gender to attack or kill women.

That's the whole point! Because they don't have to go to ANY lengths! Just walk in as a man, dressed as they are! They don't have do anything! Just walk in. And now we cannot call them out, because the we are the ones charged/banned etc. I'm not sure why you think there is any effort at all for a man to enter a womens space. That's the whole point.

Do you live in the UK? This is just absolute nonsense. We don't have self ID. No-one has been charged for challenging a man in a woman's space. If women have been banned by organisations, we'll that organisation is within its rights to have their own policies but they will lose business if what you say happens, as women will vote with their feet and not use them.

I'm GC and definitely would not want self ID but you've been hoodwinked by scaremongering.

Voting conservative will do precisely nothing to change what's happening today so it's not entirely relevant to the thread anyway.

Crikeyalmighty · 28/03/2024 12:09

Well I for one won't be. It's all very well banging on about the single sex rights etc - but the current situation is with the Tory's in power- they enabled it-

WaterWeasel · 28/03/2024 12:11

CaterhamReconstituted · 28/03/2024 10:25

People are really letting their tribal and partisan hatred of the Tories blind them to what is at stake with single-sex spaces.

Yes this is so apparent in this thread. The name calling and aggression at women who may chose to NOT vote Labour is also revolting. I still think that Labour are in for a surprise at the election - it will not be the win that they expect it to be.

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