Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want every women in England to vote Tory at the GR

1000 replies

Hurrydash · 28/03/2024 02:01

So I don't agree with Angela Rayner's description of the Tories as scum, but I get her drift and if she'd been more tempered in her language I probably would have bought in.

HOWEVER

For me - and actually should be got everyone - the only real issue at the next GE is freedom of speech/women's rights.

I see Labour as the destroyer of these and so must vote against them. The only meaningful way to do this is to vote Tory which I am reluctant but prepared to do.

Is this unreasonable?

Happy to be convinced - for real not just words - if there is evidence Labour (Starmer 1 in 1000 women have a dick) may see the light before the GE.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Iwasafool · 28/03/2024 09:55

Yalta · 28/03/2024 09:46

Tbh neither is Labour. If their own leader doesn’t know the biological difference between a man and a woman

the Tories don't care about anyone's rights, let alone the rights of women

At least they are being equal in how everyone is treated 😊

I can somewhat understand where Hurrydash is coming from.

I would like to see a different Conservative Party leader. One who is more in touch with the reality of people’s lives.

I would like to see the NHS run differently and doctors and nurses to actually look at what they are doing and the consequences of their actions and get better systems in place so they don’t waste so much of our money

I would like to see education given a shake up so that it isn’t just the academically bright who have access to colleges to learn a trade or do any sort of further education that could result in a career path.

With Labour I would like to see a leader who has policies that aren’t based on how the wind is blowing and which section of society is shouting the loudest at that moment

I couldn’t tell you a single policy Labour has that I feel confident if they got to power they would have the confidence to enact it. Starmer seems to have the single mindedness to keep to what ever the manifesto says

Oh yes I feel so much better that we have equal misery. Personally I'd like things to improve for men and women, young and old, black and white, everyone in fact and that isn't what the Tories want.

HumanBurrito · 28/03/2024 09:55

Fuck no

SloaneStreetVandal · 28/03/2024 09:55

gettingbackonit23 · 28/03/2024 09:43

The self ID thing is such a distraction. Hardly anyone bothers to get a GRC anyway so it’s not going to change things hugely. The tories are the ones who proposed self-ID anyway probably because it’s cheaper for them and they dont need to provide MH support for people with gender dysphoria. Surely nobody can be that dumb that they think that this is the single most important issue facing women today?

Self ID is/was not remotely a distraction. As was demonstrated by Bryson's advocate. Self ID would've, without a doubt, broadened the legal definition.

And 'dumb' - ew. The 1970's rang, they want their slurs back.

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 28/03/2024 09:55

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/03/2024 09:51

Can you please explain to me why referring to anyone by anything other than their biological sex isn't gaslighting?. Or how trying to force others to follow your lead in this respect isn't an attempt to coerce thought and speech?

You can toady to the demands of a sexually violent manipulative man if you wish - it doesn't mean that the rest of us have to.

Acknowledging that I=he is a "dangerous individual" means nothing if you are prepared to facilitate his fantasy of himself and allow him into women's spaces.

She wishes to be known as she, I will refer to her as she.
That doesn't/shouldn't automatically open any doors to women's safe spaces, far from it. Whatever you call the person, they are a rapist, for me it's almost irrelevant what gender term we use as long as we don't forget the crucial word rapist! I still don't understand why you think this is gaslighting, unless we have different understanding of the term.

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 09:58

Popettypop · 28/03/2024 02:14

Tories are indeed scum

Why the need to dehumanise half of the UK population?

Moonmelodies · 28/03/2024 09:59

Hibernating80 · 28/03/2024 09:37

There are 50 week waits for gynecology appointments in my area. The Tory's are not on the side of women.

In Swansea 10% of gynae patients are waiting over 105 weeks to start their treatment. Under a Labour government - "a blueprint for Labour Britain" according to Mr.Starmer.

Yalta · 28/03/2024 09:59

At the moment there isn’t a single political party that I want in power that doesn’t need a huge over haul of not just their policies but also the people who will be charged with enacting these policies

Bigcoatweather · 28/03/2024 10:01

I’ve been both Labour and Tory in my time, but I’m fed up with both now, so will vote for Reform. While they’re also not my ideal choice, I think it’s time we had at least two or three new parties in the game. I can’t see how anyone could do worse than the current shower.

IClaudine · 28/03/2024 10:02

maddening · 28/03/2024 09:49

I am voting party of women

Are there any candidates actually standing apart from KJK?

Jovacknockowitch · 28/03/2024 10:03

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 09:58

Why the need to dehumanise half of the UK population?

It's way less than half

Highsecurity · 28/03/2024 10:04

Yes they do. All they have to say is they 'identify' as a woman. It is already happening now!

You mean after one recent case where a man, dressed as a man, living as a man, filmed women in toilets was caught and arrested and then claimed he identified as a woman where there was absolutely no evidence at all he identified as a woman, and the police didn’t believe him?

Do you mean this https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1738250/sex-attack-female-toilet-gender-birmingham

That has nothing to do with trans people, no government would have prevented him he was dressed as a man! What he claimed is irrelevant and had no bearing on him being caught and punished.

Self ID is already in. To them, TWAW. And based only on say-so of the male. That, is Self-ID. And it's what Labour supports.

It isn’t legally in. In reality anyone can identify as anything and walk into public spaces in most places in the world. In very tightly controlled environments where there are vulnerable people eg prisons no one can just do that. Labour have said they don’t support self ID. You want to think they do to justify your right wing voting inclinations.

No it's the TRUTH. As long as ANY man says he 'identifies' as a woman (for the 30 minutes or whatever time he wants to be in that space), he...is....in!

Where is this commonly happening? Is this a daily problem blighting the lives of lots of women? Who? Where?

They do (Isla Bryson) and will.

Bryson is in Scotland and in a male prison.

It shouldn't be up to any sporting organisation, it should be a blanket rule, made by the government.

It usually is up to sporting organisations to make rules relevant to each sport. You could have a blanket rule but some sports do want to have mixed elements if it’s safe to do so. More sporting bodies are bringing in policies based on birth sex all over the world and will continue to do so. (I hope female sports are protected. By and large they are. I still wouldn’t vote conservative).

We shouldn't have to police them. We never did have to. But while it is nominally not socially acceptable or just any men to walk into them, the fact is that now we cannot call any obvious male out, because if we do, we are called 'transphobic'. There used to be a time that if a male entered, granny could hit him with her walking stick or women could shout at him and create a noise and he'd flee. Those days are long gone. In fact, there was a case at a swimming centre where an 80 year old great grand mother called out a male in the female change rooms. Guess what? She was banned from swimming there. That's right. She was. The ability to call out men in female spaces is looonnnggg gone. It is socially unacceptable to call out men in womens spaces now.

No and we never will police them. ‘Any man’ can still be called out and be removed from these spaces. The occasional trans woman minding their own business in a toilet or changing room, and it is still rare is hardly a major election issue compared to the destruction and corruption the Tories have wrought. There have been transitioned people in toilets for decades under all governments. There will always be some.

They can but unfortunately too many/most don't choose that. There needs to be a law passed that says rape and sexual assault groups MUST (not can, must) provide single sex only spaces and care if asked.

Many do provide single sex spaces. Many refuges are now self contained units with their own bathrooms/ kitchens. It’s up to service providers to decide themselves how to meet the needs of their service users and they are very experienced at doing this. Most have said the occasional (again rare) trans woman isn’t a problem. The law is already passed that allows single birth sex provision. These services have been doing this a long time and they have been clear that this isn’t as major a problem as you seem to want it to be.

BelfastBelle05 · 28/03/2024 10:05

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 28/03/2024 09:55

She wishes to be known as she, I will refer to her as she.
That doesn't/shouldn't automatically open any doors to women's safe spaces, far from it. Whatever you call the person, they are a rapist, for me it's almost irrelevant what gender term we use as long as we don't forget the crucial word rapist! I still don't understand why you think this is gaslighting, unless we have different understanding of the term.

You do realise what the word rapist means? It’s certainly not what you’re implying

SoreAndTired1 · 28/03/2024 10:05

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 28/03/2024 09:55

She wishes to be known as she, I will refer to her as she.
That doesn't/shouldn't automatically open any doors to women's safe spaces, far from it. Whatever you call the person, they are a rapist, for me it's almost irrelevant what gender term we use as long as we don't forget the crucial word rapist! I still don't understand why you think this is gaslighting, unless we have different understanding of the term.

Why does his wishes matter to you so much?

Why is it more important to you to care about the wishes of a male rapist, than to care about the wishes of a rape victim?

oatmilk4breakfast · 28/03/2024 10:05

Hurrydash · 28/03/2024 02:01

So I don't agree with Angela Rayner's description of the Tories as scum, but I get her drift and if she'd been more tempered in her language I probably would have bought in.

HOWEVER

For me - and actually should be got everyone - the only real issue at the next GE is freedom of speech/women's rights.

I see Labour as the destroyer of these and so must vote against them. The only meaningful way to do this is to vote Tory which I am reluctant but prepared to do.

Is this unreasonable?

Happy to be convinced - for real not just words - if there is evidence Labour (Starmer 1 in 1000 women have a dick) may see the light before the GE.

The Conservative party have been captured. Look at their actual record on free speech. It's that party that has effectively criminalised many aspects of peaceful protest. Honestly: look here - https://www.bigissue.com/news/activism/how-priti-patels-new-policing-bill-threatens-your-right-to-protest/ They did it. It came in. We're all subject to these new laws we didn't need. This party is against free speech.

How Priti Patel’s new policing bill threatens your right to protest

The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts bill put forward by the Government could make peaceful protests and marches a thing of the past.

https://www.bigissue.com/news/activism/how-priti-patels-new-policing-bill-threatens-your-right-to-protest

gettingbackonit23 · 28/03/2024 10:06

mumda · 28/03/2024 09:52

Imagine labour get in.

That should bring shivers to everyone.

Why? Education and healthcare was in a significantly better state when they were last in power. You also didn’t have people using food banks or huge amounts of people sleeping rough.

brunettemic · 28/03/2024 10:08

Nah, I’m good thanks.

AhNowTed · 28/03/2024 10:08

The biggest rise in poverty in 30 years - no my head won't be turned by empty words from this shower.

They have done, and will do absolutely nothing for women. Zero.

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 10:08

Jovacknockowitch · 28/03/2024 10:03

It's way less than half

Okay. Why the need to dehumanise anyone?

BelfastBelle05 · 28/03/2024 10:09

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 09:58

Why the need to dehumanise half of the UK population?

Are you always such a drama queen? The Tory party would be elated if polls were showing that sort of majority - fortunately for the rest of us they’re not, far from it.

WaitingForMojo · 28/03/2024 10:09

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/03/2024 09:51

Can you please explain to me why referring to anyone by anything other than their biological sex isn't gaslighting?. Or how trying to force others to follow your lead in this respect isn't an attempt to coerce thought and speech?

You can toady to the demands of a sexually violent manipulative man if you wish - it doesn't mean that the rest of us have to.

Acknowledging that I=he is a "dangerous individual" means nothing if you are prepared to facilitate his fantasy of himself and allow him into women's spaces.

I’m sorry you’ve had those experiences. But you don’t get to speak for every woman who has experienced rape or DV. There are many of us with those experiences who don’t share your view here.

Annettekurtin · 28/03/2024 10:09

The tories are better than the other parties on this issue. It’s disgraceful that so many of our political class see women’s rights as disposable.

SloaneStreetVandal · 28/03/2024 10:10

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 28/03/2024 09:55

She wishes to be known as she, I will refer to her as she.
That doesn't/shouldn't automatically open any doors to women's safe spaces, far from it. Whatever you call the person, they are a rapist, for me it's almost irrelevant what gender term we use as long as we don't forget the crucial word rapist! I still don't understand why you think this is gaslighting, unless we have different understanding of the term.

Why is it so important to you to refer to Bryson as she when his maleness has been so unequivocally established???

He's one of the 50% of men who decide they're transgender only after being charged (and with a distinctly male pattern offence).

If your concern is genuine transgender people not being misgendered, you're doing no favour by insisting on female pronouns for someone who everyone (except you!) believes to be a fraud.

DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy · 28/03/2024 10:11

@KeinLiebeslied54321 well my suggestion would be to study the relevant parties manifestos, select the party that best fits you and vote them 🤷‍♀️

anotherside · 28/03/2024 10:11

If you’re happy with the status quo then vote Tory. If not then vote Green.

Economically and socially Sir Keir Starmer will do very little different to the present government - and then in 5-10 years time the Tories will just happily pick up from where they left off. Pointless.

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/03/2024 10:11

Iwasafool · 28/03/2024 09:51

It is truly tragic what is happening to education, care and the NHS are no better. I can't believe that who uses a toilet is the Number 1 issue for people.

Because it is both symbolic and important in practical terms.

The countries that do best, economically, educationally and in terms of health and social policy are those where women have the most rights.

Why? Probably because women, in evolutionary terms, see the need to take care of the tribe at a "I help you, you help me" level, and also the need tp protect the vulnerable at both ends of the age spectrum. Men, evolutionarily speaking, just see everything as a power grab - "get as much as you can while you can".

And forget "whataboutery" - it is still women who do the bulk of work in the home, care for children, struggle to feed their families, go without when times are tough. Few women walk out on their children - men do it every hour of every day.

Women fought for the right to vote, be educated, have body autonomy, control their own reproduction, get equal pay for the same work as men, have their own sports and spaces - and we are putting women's achievements in these areas back to God-knows-when.

The "toilet issue" is so much more than just being able to pee in safety -and it has repercussions for society at every level.

This was a wonderful country not so long age - now it's fast becoming a violent, misogynistic sh1thole - and the way women are being treated is just a symptom of a much deeper malaise.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.