For DH to insist on vaginal birth not ceasarean

[Anguish]

Asking for a friend. Why would he care either way? She has a low pain tolerance and doesn't want to experience the most painful thing that can happen to a woman.

EDIT: He's absolutely lovely and basically a perfect partner in every conceivable way, which is why it's slightly out of character.

So does the entire birth. I don’t get your point. As long as a woman is educated on pros and cons of each treatment she should have the choice.

@Newsenmum Yes but every intervention carries risk. Birth is painful, of course it is. And I don't think all women are informed re epidural risk; I certainly wasn't with ny firstborn and in retrospect I would have refused.
I'm a hands-off homebirther since though so you can probably guess where I sit re interventions.

Yes, there really can't be two opinions on this.

But is safe and is used many, many times every single day as babies are born. Because the risks are small.

I wanted to feel as little pain as possible so had an epidural.

This time I’ll be having an elective c-section because I’m having twins and don’t want to attempt a vaginal birth.

I simply wouldn’t have had children if I had no say over my body giving birth.

@SouthLondonMum22 A risk is still a risk. If you don't need to medically take that risk, why take it? The side effects of having an epidural for me nearly resulted in my baby passing though so for me, I'd have rather been in dire agony than take thar risk that again.

I 100% support a womans autonomy over her own body and no man should ever get to 'insist' on anything.

However! If the tables were turned and it were men who give birth..... I know I would have an opinion! I would prefer that DH tried to birth vaginally because it's safer for both - babies who don't experience labour are at greater risk of admission to NICU with TTN, they also are at risk of a whole host of longterm issues due to lack of exposure to the vaginal microbiome. It also can lead to issues with breastmilk supply.

I would also be concerned at the risk for future pregnancies - higher chance of abnormal placenta location which can lead to massive haemorrhage and hysterectomy. Greater risk of uterine rupture should they go into labour in the future.

So I personally would wish they would consider attempting vaginal birth but I certainly wouldn't insist on anything and probably would keep my opinion to myself.

However op asked why the DH might feel this way.

It's certainly preferable to him wanting her to have an elcs so that her vagina remains intact - some gross men actually do think that way.......

I've had both vaginal deliveries and an emergency c section and I can say from personal experience the section recovery was far more painful. I laboured for ages first too so that didn't help matters at all as I didn't escape labor pain either. In one vaginal delivery I had an episiotomy with no numbing and grazes to my labia in another and even then the recover wasn't as painful as my section so in my opinion a section is far from less painful and I never understood the notion that it's the 'easier' way out.

Because you don't want to.

Additionally, you're failing here to factor in the risks to a woman who feels the need for pain relief not getting it. We don't have good data on women who are denied epidurals, for obvious reasons, and they rather than all women giving birth vaginally are the appropriate control group.

While we're anecdoting, I've always wondered whether I'd have been able to avoid an instrumental delivery if I'd been given the epidural I was so desperate for. Unfortunately, I had nothing left in the tank to push because the pain was so exhausting.

Then no woman should be getting pregnant at all because it’s always going to be a risk.

Homebirth is a risk
vaginal birth is a risk
c-section is a risk
epidurals are a risk

Giving birth at all is a risk.

Hell, going out of your front door is a risk.

We're all going to be influenced by our own stories and experiences. The key thing, though, is that it's the woman's right to make her own informed choices from the medically feasible options available and unless this woman's husband happens to be her obstetrician he has no right to insist on anything.

@Vod I don't want to get up at 6am to care for my toddler. But I have to.

My epidural made my horrendous instrumental delivery far more likely.

@SouthLondonMum22 So why increase risk unecessarily?

What relevance does your toddler have? You can have an epidural, well we're supposed to be able to anyway. I couldn't, because I was unfortunate enough to fall into the hands of the sort of arsehole who didn't think it should be allowed. But in general.

And as I said, we don't have good data on outcomes for the appropriate group to compare with. This means claims about the risks of epidurals need to be caveated.

So I had polyhydramnios and if anything drs tried to force a vaginal birth on me. I already had contributing mental health factors which had made me decide to have a c-section before the poly diagnosis. But the poly diagnosis and the complications that came along with that only solidified it for me that a c-section was the right thing. I distinctly remember arguing with a registrar at my birth choices appointment that I’d already decided on a c-section and told my consultant who’s agreed to it (he’d left the hospital so they were revisiting me). They did not want me to have a c-section whatsoever. But I stood my ground. I actually went into labour the morning of my planned section and thank goodness no cord prolapse. Got to hospital and they asked me if I wanted to try vaginally and I said absolutely not. I think I’d got it into my head that I was having him at X time on X date and was not willing to introduce any uncertainty and unnecessary pain into it. I had a genuinely lovely c section and very easy, relatively pain-free recovery. There was never any real pain as I would liken my early contractions to (I was 3cm when I got to hospital after waters broke and was contracting for 1min every 4 mins, couldn’t talk or concentrate through them, and that was just early labour so I’m very aware it would have got a lot worse). So everyone is different and certainly in my experience having a medical issue such as poly does not guarantee a c-section. I had to push for mine and if it wasn’t for perinatal mental health team backing me I’m not so sure I’d have got it for poly alone.

The thing to take from this thread is that it doesn't matter whether one finds oneself unable to understand the birth choices of another woman. All that matters is that you support her right to make them, be that elective section, homebuilt or epidural. And you either understand that or you're a piece of shit.

Because the risk is small.

Because as a person, I matter too and I wanted as less pain as possible.

Because it is my body.

Sorry but your views are absolutely ridiculous. Sounds like you think women should suffer because it's more noble or something.

Well said 🤩

Exactly.

I can’t understand wanting a homebirth but it would be ridiculous to want to take that choice away from other women.

I simply just won’t have one myself.

@Vod We all have to do things in life we'd rather not do?
We can't hide from the fact that any intervention carries risk. So for me, a mother saying "It's my right and choice to have an epidural purely for the fact I don't want to feel any pain" doesn't sit right when this could potentially result in serious consequences to both mother and baby.
As I say, however, I wasn't fully informed and had I known an epidurlal would result in my baby's heart rate dropping critically low then I would have refused.

@SouthLondonMum22 Why not re homebirth?

It doesn't need to sit right with you.

But while you're deciding whether it does anyway, you also need to factor in the risks of the woman not having the pain relief she needs. If you're failing to do that, you don't have the full picture to base any conclusion on.

@Vod Needs or wants?

Needs.

While we're here, could you clarify whether you do indeed support women's right to choose?

About 10% of epidurals will lead to a drop in the woman's BP which in turn will usually cause a drop in baby's heartbeat - this generally corrects with IV fluids. The rare time it doesn't correct - an EMCS will be performed. The odds of this causing a bad outcome to baby are literally miniscule as the team are ready for this - you will only ever get an epidural in an environment that is prepared for a a fast emergency birth.