For DH to insist on vaginal birth not ceasarean

[Anguish]

Asking for a friend. Why would he care either way? She has a low pain tolerance and doesn't want to experience the most painful thing that can happen to a woman.

EDIT: He's absolutely lovely and basically a perfect partner in every conceivable way, which is why it's slightly out of character.

@Scirocco

me too! ECS

I’m saying for the fit and healthy person who has a choice between both options.

@Vod

This os precisely why I put up the stats from NICE as everyone seems to agree on their guidelines being fair and in the best interests of all.

We are all going to have our own biases and hang ups about birth. We could sit here and argue all day trying to outdo one another with horror stories of VB and CS - because both exist and are plentiful.

The fact is, the only information that is at all relevant to any woman making the decision is that provided via her doctor and sources such as NICE.

Yes, on that I completely agree with you.

Sorry, haven't read the references yet, but does this correlation still exist when controlled for parental age as an independent variable?

Sunds like his mask is slipping to me. Domestic abuse often starts during pregnancy & they're almost always perfect partners until then. If she hasn't already utilised Clare's Law then she really ought to before baby arrives.

@Irisginger

Cesarean delivery was linked to an increased likelihood of ASD (crude OR=2.46, 95% CI: 1.40-4.33). The association remained statistically significant, even after adjusting the potential confounding factors (reported previously in the scientific literature) in the first model (adjusted OR=2.9, 95% CI: 1.57-5.35).

It is recommended that preventive measures are adopted to avoid unnecessary cesarean sections.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8015537/#:~:text=Cesarean%20delivery%20was%20linked%20to,CI%3A%201.57%2D5.35).

@Irisginger

I think the link I gave before was this meta analysis as it is the most up to date
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00404-023-07059-9

However, you would need to login for the full text.

There is a lot of research on this at the moment, nothing definitive - there will always be opposing opinion and a lot of the work relative to this and gut microbiota/immune system is still far from understood.

Personally not my area, but fascinating, and enough to make me wary and feel gutted about my birth that ended in CS, though grateful it saved my life.

Compared to the alternative it’s pretty nice. There is no easy option with childbirth. I’ve done it twice and was great both times. Maybe I’ve just got a good hospital as a lot of people I know from nct had them too and all found them great. I don’t know anyone who was actually recovering for as long as six weeks. A couple had vbacs after were shocked at how much harder they were, even if you could get up straight after.

Its literally one scar and my body is fine…

The problem with that data (happy to be corrected if wrong) is that it only divides C-sections into planned, and emergencies. The one pager doesn't give any details of the specific studies used to form conclusions
However, many women with higher risk pregnancies are advised to have a C-section. It is likely that they also hence have a higher risk of maternal death which then materialises. This shouldn't be lumped into the same category as those who genuinely have a free choice.
In short, what proportion of maternal deaths - in both categories - are due to pre-existing risk factors? As opposed to suddenly occurring in a low-risk pregnancies.

There are other studies such as this which show little difference
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2589933323003282
And references the WHO article but one really needs to dig deeper into the sample data and associated factors.

Okay, but IF you are having a massive baby or you have polyhyd., then that’s not really a healthy pregnancy. You also won’t have a choice as drs will recommend / force a C-section on you.

But for a perfectly healthy pregnant woman to elect for an csection because she is scared of natural birth is bonkers.

Not bonkers. Their choice, as emphasised by clinical guidelines. You may not agree or understand, but you don't have to.

Yes, there've been a loooot of posts on this thread from posters who evidently haven't realised that their inability to understand doesn't reflect badly on anyone other than them.

Showing my ignorance here but can you elect for a CS without medical reason? Is this a fairly new thing?

Yes and yes. See NICE guidance discussed at various points in the thread.

From NHS:

”If after discussing all the risks and hearing about all the support on offer you still feel that a vaginal birth is not an acceptable option, you should be offered a planned caesarean. If your doctor is unwilling to perform the operation, they should refer you to a doctor who will.”

Why would a doctor be unwilling?

I agree with @thebestinterest. Ateotd, in cases of "normal" pregnancy and labour, I don't think it's reasonable to increase the risks for both mother and baby unless medically necessary.
I was incredibly surprised when I read on here the other day that a woman can opt for an elective c-section purely for the reason she doesn't want a baby passing through her vagina or she has a parents evening to attend near to her due date. Or she can opt for an epidural purely because she doesn't fancy the idea of any pain.

I don’t think it’s bonkers at all. 🤔 Clearly you have a very different view or experience of birth.

Why cant she opt for surgery as opposed to quite likely vaginal tearing and trauma? We women do have rights now you know. It’s like how we don’t need to have sex the second we start our periods. It’s a woman’s own body and she can look at the risks and decide what she wants to go through. Maybe you’ve had a great experience. Many women have not. Obstetricians quite frequently choose to have a section for themselves.
I look back and am annoyed I got so caught up in the vaginal birth brigade. Twice. 😳
And no woman has an epidural to avoid all pain. You have to have started labour to get an epidural and therefore will not have been pain free. Also, shit, why shouldn’t women not want pain? Imagine if it was men doing this.

My DH was the opposite, tried to talk me into a C Section. It was worry of the unknown of labour on his part. My mum also tried the same! Luckily I was pretty sure of what I wanted so I could just ignore.

Ultimately your friend needs to listen to and trust her inner voice and tune other voices out.

@Newsenmum I'm not sure an obstetrician would advise a c-section so that the mother could attend Little Johnny's parent's evening a week Tuesday?
Or an epidural because mother doesn't want to feel the discomfort of contractions?
Surely they would only advise if medically advantageous?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6817762/
some of the factors
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/jul/11/nhs.health1
15 years ago but it has some stats on how many deliveries are actually straightforward. Less than 50%. And it references older NICE guidelines which don't allow elective C-sections.
I've had a quick google for more recent figures but can't find any

Why cant she opt for surgery as opposed to quite likely vaginal tearing and trauma?

You make it sound like surgery is free of "tearing and trauma". It really isn't.

Obstetricians frequently have c sections for their own births.

And some people like the practicality element. This isn’t really the reason it happens though is it.

And everyone feels pain differently. If the pain makes them want an epidural, they need an epidural. People take a paracetamol for a headache and yet women are told they must go through several hours of contractions just because.

But it might be the kind of trauma they prefer. Personally I wanted a c section over vaginal trauma.

@Newsenmum No, not "just because." Because an epidural carries risks to both mother and baby.