To be furious with the Joke Party?

[IClaudine]

Jonathan Gullis a party chair.

The ridiculous, lying, AI generated videos with the American B movie voiceover.

Blaming the sick and disabled for the state of the economy.

Meanwhile, children are going to school hungry, in dirty clothes and tired as they are living in conditions that don't enable proper sleep. The NHS is crumbling.

The Tory government is no longer a functioning government. It is a corpse, shambling towards its final demise.

AIBU to be furious and sickened and to wonder how on earth anyone could now bring themselves to vote Tory?

The school is not a business. It is non profit making. And the ifs are talking bollocks. I know a lot of parents like us, who simply cannot absorb that level of cost.

Furthermore, they have not counted the cost of those like me who work to cover school fees. Once we move into state education, there is a significant saving annually. Yes, we will take a holiday abroad (we do not do this currently), but I will not need to work at the level I currently do. I could actually drop hours and be home more. Which I will. I could actually lift myself out of paying tax altogether. Dp will retire early.

I know lots of people who work/work more than they would choose to cover said fees. So it will not raise extra tax at the rates predicted.

Sorry but this is a ridiculous statement. Labour have made huge differences when they've been in power. It doesn't take much to research that.

They have. I am a natural Labour voter, I totally appreciate that the Blair years were better than now. But they did not change the inequality in society. They did not close the earnings gap, they did not make state schools great. They did not do all they could have.

I know it won't change your mind Snugglemonkey but this thread is a good explainer

https://x.com/MonkEmma/status/1708087449618903433?s=20

Seeing lots of rather dubious takes flying round twitter about the effects of adding VAT to private school fees or removing their charitable status.

Lots of “but think of the poor struggling parents” and “there’ll be a mass exodus FLOODING state schools” etc

Reality check

Even if they had done all they could, 14 years of a Tory government would have undone a lot of it.

Just look at the NHS waiting list as an example.

Lol at private school parents finding it a bit "tight" I'd Labour get in. The rest of us have been finding it "tight" for years because of the Tory government.🙄

Our local private schools are 12k and 15k a term. No amount of budgeting or uk holidays would make that affordable to us!

Shouldn't those who protest they will have to cancel their skiing holiday if they have to pay VAT for a non-essential expediture item just work harder, like they tell those on the minimum wage?

Anyone who can make the adjustments you describe @Snugglemonkey is not exactly grinding along in poverty even if your child leaves private education. If decisions have to be made by the incoming government I think the needs of people much more vulnerable than parents who are paying for private school need to be considered first. In any case I think this proposed measure is one I'm fully behind.

Obviously you can make the voting choice you want and don't need to justify it to anyone.

Careful. Research will also lead you to wage freezes, devaluation and NHS charges...

I love the subliminal attempt to counter the facts with such gems as :

" This latest poll will fuel further fears that delaying the election until later in the year will almost guarantee a Conservative defeat."

water can't run uphill, and the Tories polling is not a manifestation of supernatural energies - spectral though Rees Mogg may seem. The are a direct and expected result of 14 years of input (or lack of input) into a physical system. You may as well drop a weight from a height and expect it to float.

So current count is 98 MPs and falling. What will it be when spineless Sunak cals an election. That's if he does. I can see him just running down the clock with indecision.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13255623/Tories-hold-100-seats-Labour-468-new-poll-suggests-blow-Rishi-Sunak-constituency-survey-says-risk.html

What are you talking about? When did Labour bring in NHS charges?

A lie is halfway round the world while the truth is doing it's laces up.

Well quite, @SerendipityJane !

In 1951. NhS Dental charges. Look, I don't vote Tory. But history is history. It's literally a click away.

You're wrong, fyi. NHS Dental charges were introduced by a Labour government in 1951. It's why Bevan resigned.

Are you being deliberately disingenuous? A £1 charge towards dentures, while being a charge, isn't quite what your statement about labour bringing in NHS charges would suggest! Especially bearing in mind that it was shortly after a labour government brought in free health and dental care through the NHS!

It's a simple factual statement. Nothing disingenuous about it. Also £1 in 1951 was the equivalent of a hell of a lot more today, around 40 quid.

You could just graciously admit you were wrong after roundly telling me I was a liar. It happens🤓 Doesn't mean voting Tory in 2024 is good.

Correction, enthusiastically agreeing with someone else that I was a liar.

Potentially not lying but definitely being disingenuous. Perhaps you would like to graciously admit that? You know that you were giving the impression Labour were pro bringing in charges in general for the NHS when that's not at all what happened. And while £1 was more then than it is now, it was also a lot less than paying fully for dentures back then, before Labour brought in the NHS.

Plus dentures remained fixed at £1 for 20 years.

My understanding was that dentists and opticians never signed up for the NHS the way doctors did, and that's why they have remained separate and chargeable.

It's all rooted in the 1940s way mens clubs worked, I believe.

The NHS was founded in 1948, so for less than 3 years dentures were free. Given that much of the population had, had no access to dentistry before, oral health was appauling (a state the Tories are trying to return us to) and so demand was huge. The government in 1951 made the choice to fund a foreign war, rather than continue the free provision.

Quite why this is in the least relevant to why the Tories are intent on defunding the NHS and other public services 70 years later is beyond me, but it does make a change from But Jeremy Corbyn.

Initially in 1948 less than half of dentists signed up. By the end of the year the vast majority had signed up to do NHS work as the demand was huge, and the money paid was good. Although over the next few years the money paid per consultation and intervention was gradually reduced.

Dentists though like GPs remained private businesses and so not a core part of the NHS in the same way that most hospitals were and are.

But Clement Atlee!

But why didn't Churchill reverse it rather than add charges for treatment in 1952?

But Winston Churchill!