Aibu to think most "gifted" children come from well off, affluent families?

[Blueballoons1]

Eg start instruments or sports very early, can afford top tuition, often a parent has the skills to teach the dc at home, they have the time & money to travel around the country for events.. Parents oversee practice is done at home.. Whereas they may well be quite medicore compared to a child with raw talent whose parents just cannot afford what it takes..
I just feel for music, sports or academics money & an affluent background is part of the parcel for the majority of "gifted kids"..

I think it's parental input not class or money, mainly.

Money helps a lot tbh.

I was one of three siblings and diagnosed as gifted at eleven. Neither of the others were. My family were educated working class; still are. No extra activities or tutors. One of my children (out of five children) is also gifted - has ended up incredibly wealthy and successful in their field but also had no extras as a child apart from the reading/being interested in academia/discussions on current affairs that simply comes from being a part of this family.

My son got the highest GCSEs in the County and we were as poor as poor can be- single parent 4 kids.
Best the Grammar schools, private schools etc.
A good brain will out.

What most people are describing on this thread aren't gifted children.

No. Higher attaining childen are not all gifted. In whatever their field of interest or pursuit.

There are lot of parents who would like to think of their children as gifted but most of them would be very humbled if they met an actually gifted person!

Yes he did but that’s not the OP’s point.

There will always be outliers but in general yes, children from better backgrounds will always be at an advantage in most aspects of childhood, including being able to shine with a “gift”.

I agree, @OldChinaJug My friend’s gifted daughter is simply on another plain to the rest of us! Her sister is intelligent, my children are intelligent, but she’s way beyond them. It’s just the way she is.

No - you’re wrong.

Ii had a friend who had her daughter at 21 never really worked ,didn't have many qualifications herself ,yet her daughter was very intelligent and got excellent aGCSE,s ,Alevels ,Master, s in maths and a PHD ,her mother wasn't all that interested in her education but she did have very supportive Grandparents who mainly brought her up.
Was she truly gifted though or just exceptionally academically
You read of people who pass maths Alevel at some ridiculously young age ,and Ruth Lawrence who got into Either Oxford or Cambridge at 12 ,those type of people are surely on a different level?

It depends how you define gifted.

Some children/ people are truly gifted in a particular subject, while others are pushed in that direction. Especially at primary school level.

The problem with some diceplines is that, once a child is present at every show or competition and reasonably successful their names gets recognised. They often turn into a safe option for the top 3- 4 spots rather than a child that's only able to attend very few such events but truly gifted due to financial restraints.

And again, it's usually the same professional or volunteers that support these events. Don't forget all these people are somehow connected.

There is a lot of bias in children's competitions.

This is coming from a parent who had a DC doing very well in sports and attended lots of competitions where sometimes 1/2 point means winning or losing.

I think a lot of people play fast and loose with the term "gifted" and what most people are describing are very intelligent children. My DS got into a programme for gifted children in Ireland but I wouldnt consider him gifted in the true sense.

I have the opposite problem OP, I have time, energy, money and interest to put into my DS but he has no interest. He is much happier coasting in school and not putting any effort into anything!

I think the truly gifted and talented among us either don't realise it or don't believe in themselves.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23931870-500-the-truth-about-intelligence-what-makes-someone-smarter-than-others/

From this article, it seems intelligence at least is not influenced by environment.

Interesting though about being ‘gifted’ in sports, the arts, chess etc. You don’t have to be intelligent obviously to excel in those, look at many footballers - Beckham, Rooney, Walker.

As for parental influence in that area - I have a relatively affluent relative who loves football and insists his DS is ‘gifted’. He’s spent £000s on training from a young age, travel abroad, even remortgaged his house so could be close to a hundred £000 now. He paid to get him on a team abroad (young adult now) but he was kept on the bench. Relative has spent years travelling all over the country with him. Even gave up his job to be his manager. Kid has never been scouted though and although quite good is obviously not good enough to get a contract. That just shows really that parental influence and money can only stretch so far.

The gifted and talented who are born into wealth are more likely to develop the full potential of their gifts and talents.

And that is why birth rates are dropping all over the world and many countries are facing population collapse.

For sports; yes.

You need money to pay for training fees, kit, competition entry, physio, training camps, diesel / hotels if competitions are far afield. If your child doesn't have the family money to pay for all of this, then they won't get as far in their chosen sport as one who might not have as much natural talent as yours, but who can afford to pay for all of this. There is also parental time; it is normally easier for a parent in a well paid / professional / flexible job to take time off (or to flex their time) to act as taxi service to said child for training and competitions, compared to a parent on min wage type jobs who doesn't normally have that type of flexibility. Many children with the innate talent for that sport don't get a chance to take it as far as they might have been able to do due to finances.

I would assume that this is also the case for music (lessons, instruments, camps, performances etc) . Academics less so - a gifted child has the ability to teach themselves if provided with books etc.

I agree that coming from an affluent family gives them an advantage. However. I taught secondary English in a rough inner city and its leafy suburbs. It surprised me that more than half of those flagged G&T were also in receipt of pupil premium. This was even more marked in the nicer out of town school.

The pupil premium funding gave our school a chance to try to equalise for these kids but like others have said it’s not a substitute for some of the lifestyle opportunities the more well off kids had.

Yes but a child who is showing huge promise in school violin with a single parent who is working three jobs to keep a roof over their heads & pay for the essential basic needs is not going to have the same opportunities as the child also showing huge promise in school with parents who can then afford top private tuition, upgrade the violin when necessary, afford to bring to competions & camp, gets child into junior orchestratra & has the time & means to bring & collect.

Of course, I totally agree. But the point still stands that the "giftedness" that underpins this is genetic. How it's nurtured and developed is, as you say, strongly influenced by the resources and priorities of the family the child grows up in.

I agree, though, that the fundamental "talent" is largely meaningless unless the environment exists to support it.

I think it’s a mistake to assume that ‘giftedness’ or ‘talent’ is some sort of innate quality. A lot of it is being able to realise various kinds of potential in particular ways and a large part of that will always be opportunity and support.

Someone might have the most incredible potential in an area they never have the opportunity to even know exists and never get to develop.

Inequalities are everywhere and undeniably have effects. Being annoyed at families who are willing and able to give their children opportunities and support so they can excel in particular areas isn’t going to change anything. Unless you think fairness is a race to the bottom where no one gets to do anything just in case they get ‘more’ than someone else.

Possibly unpopular opinion, but most gifted children actually have undiagnosed ADHD/ASD and their social class gives them the opportunity to develop their special interests into extraordinary talents, whilst simultaneously offsetting many negative impacts of being ND.

Taylor Swift is the most popular example with many people suspecting she may be autistic. But her incredible talent was encouraged and promoted from an early age by extremely wealthy parents with spectacular results.

There was a good Tiktok from a parent saying how it's much easier for ND kids from middle/upper classes to slip through the gaps because their parents have the innate understanding and the resources to compensate for areas that they might struggle in. Eg. An attentive SAHM mother might know her child forgets or loses things and develops systems to assist them with executive function. They will also actively encourage whatever special interest the child has and have the funds for extra classes, coaches, hobby equipment etc.

There's a running joke of "gifted child to burned out ADHD adult pipeline" on Tiktok which is exactly what happens to many. However many gifted kids also become very successful adults despite being ND. Family background plays a huge role in how much support they receive. Eg. Being given a home or a deposit, not having to juggle multiple jobs or worry about income whilst pursuing their special interest/setting up a business.

I think it's also very important to distinguish between being "quite good" and actually being "gifted". True "giftedness" is exceptionally rare.

I think most people on this thread are just talking about having sufficient aptitude/talent to have the potential to be good with determination and if given the right support. That's different from being "gifted".

Or have no interest in whatever they might have an undiscovered gift for and so never know in the first place!

I think with sport innate talent can go hand in hand with parental influence and money
David Beckhan encouraged all of his kids to play football and they were all coached at a young age at some of the top teams in the country none of them have gone on to be famous footballers unless you count Romeo being on loan to Brent Wood B team after playing for the club his Dad part owned
The Neville brothers lived near me when I was growing up and although I never knew them they were scouted from a young age ,Their Dad although he wasn't a footballer played cricket at professional level and their mum.and sister played netball at professional level their Dad was also very involved with Bury FC so he would have had contacts ,so when Phil and Gary started showing they had talent he would have known how to get them noticed .
So it can be a mixture of both.