Aibu to think most "gifted" children come from well off, affluent families?

[Blueballoons1]

Eg start instruments or sports very early, can afford top tuition, often a parent has the skills to teach the dc at home, they have the time & money to travel around the country for events.. Parents oversee practice is done at home.. Whereas they may well be quite medicore compared to a child with raw talent whose parents just cannot afford what it takes..
I just feel for music, sports or academics money & an affluent background is part of the parcel for the majority of "gifted kids"..

I think you can be naturally gifted, gifted through having wealth and encouragement and being able to pay for training/access to tour chosen area or solely from having involved and supportive parents who actively encourage you to work st tour interests. Money may well provide more opportunities but support and encouragement are vital

Nationality/ethnicity plays a big part in it as well. I grew up in poverty, as in we shared our flat with another family poverty. We all played an instrument, we all went to academic tutoring from an early age, we were all enrolled in sports. I’m have a natural affinity with maths, however if my parents hadn’t valued education that may not have been discovered beyond “he’ll probably get an A at GCSE”, I was also a fulltime professional sports man, again, without the investment of time and money, I wouldn’t have been. My parents were shit and abusive, but for them not to value education or to nurture our talents would be a step too far even for them.

Whether you need to be wealthy to be gifted does also depend on the ethnicity of your parents in many cases.

So I am not sure that I would talk about Zara Phillips as being in the same league as Mo Farah or a Premier League Footballer, in terms of sheer sporting talent.

That’s comparing apples with pears. I’m sure Zara Phillips couldn’t play as a Premier League Footballer, but then I don’t suppose Mo Farah could win an Olympic medal for eventing.
Likewise, could Novak Djokovic win a medal for shot-putting?

Whether you need to be wealthy to be gifted does also depend on the ethnicity of your parents in many cases

Im not sure because the opportunities and resources have to be available. You said you were a full time sportsperson without the investment of time but although it wasn’t your parents time, you still availed of somebody’s time. Your parents presumably paid for this time in some way?

While parents want the best for their children, there is a big difference between being encouraged and supported versus being driven by fear and desperation. I know Chinese children who play music beautifully. They practice up to two hours daily. Some are punished and some are hit for playing wrong notes. They are on very high grades at a young age. Are these children brilliant? At what cost to their mental health and at what cost to their love of music?

I was a ‘gifted’ child…..wasn’t called that in my childhood but I was put up years at school, really pushed by my teachers, I could read at 2 as I taught myself that sort of thing.

I did not have decent parents and no support or help whatsoever. I’d not even get a well done I’d just get told intelligence was wasted on me and go back to my books (my comfort).

My life has been really tough but I do have a degree but I’ve not got the career or financial stability I would have hoped for. Without the parental support being gifted is not a benefit but a hindrance which meant as well as my childhood bring neglectful I was bullied.

"Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell is an interesting read, OP.

Essentially, the theory is that being a high achiever is a combination of various factors, including natural ability, hard work, luck and timing.

It talks of the 10,000 hours necessary to achieve mastery of a particular skill, which could be a musical instrument, a sport or a career path. But having the opportunity to put the 10,000 hours in depends a lot on luck and timing, which is often a lot more likely to happen if you come from an affluent background with supportive parents. But without a bit of talent and a lot of hard work, the privileged background on its own won't be enough.

It also refers to the "Matthew effect", which means the "haves" tend get more, i.e. their privilege multiplies, whereas the "have nots" tend to lose even the little they have, so the gap between them widens over time.

After reading that book, the takeaway point for me if I were a parent on a low income without the ability to fund lots of hobbies and activities for my children would be to join a library and support them with reading as much as possible. Because that's one thing that makes a huge difference to academic success, and it doesn't have to cost a lot of money.

Cloudsunderwater I have children of my own .However I dont recognise these people who will be sad and lonely in their old age if they are childless .Many women dont feel the need to procreate, and I am sure many of them are intelligent enough to come to that decision without "falling for bullshit and being resentful" FFS! My cousin has travelled the world ,working for the Foreign office in India and Africa as well, and has no reservations about being childless .Women have had choices since the late 60s its nothing new you know!

It's true that a lot of "gifted" people are neurodiverse.

Isaac Newton, Alan Turing and many other scientists and mathematicians were/are ASD and or ADHD. Sometimes it takes the ASD mind to have the hyper focus to be able to achieve what they do.

I've taught a lot of kids too over the years, and I only know one or two truly gifted. One is spectacularly bright, up 2 years at school, and very much ASD. Learning is no effort whatsoever as he just adores absorbing information.

Most are just very bright: hard working bright kids who've gone onto double firsts from Oxford, a premier league footballer or two, a couple of artists. Talented, yes. Gifted, no. But grafters who channel the talent they have to maximise it.

Gifted in the intellectual sense is supposed to be an IQ of 130+. Thats pretty straightforward. But yeah I think to be frank engaged parents are the most likely predictor of that turning into something like academic achievement. The sports and music stuff will take money, time and raw talent. We have a small clutch of oxbridge grads in my skint immigrant family. They are very clever, but they also grew up with expectations from their parents.

Also genetics is going to sometimes mean two smart people, make a bunch of money then have kids together and theres a reasonable chance that their kids may be brighter than average too and they will be in a good place to give their kids opportunities. But I’m sure there are a few parents on mumsnet who were very academically able themselves and were surprised when their own children aren’t, it’s a complex role of the dice.

I also think the true outliers with engaged parents probably have their parents racing to try to catch up with them rather than dragging them along. Gifted is probably a term used a bit loosely tbh.

130+ I thought it was 150? My IQ is tested over 130 and I am long way from being gifted 🤣

Smart, academically but not gifted.

But grafters who channel the talent they have to maximise it.

Thats a good point. You can have all the talent in the world but if you’re not prepared to put the work in then it will be wasted.

utter rubbish... i come from a 'poor' background, parents on benefits etc. I ended up a single mum for 10 years with 2 children to bring up on my own with no financial help from their father.

money was tight.. everything they ever had as 2nd hand. I was working part time, not earning a fortune, but enough to have food in the cupboard and clothes on their backs.

both of my girls were classed as 'gifted and talented' at school.. in the top sets for pretty much every subject. i made sure they were given the chance to try 'out of school' activites where possible.

both of my children now have degree's too their names (firsts i might add) and both have careers in their chosen field.

i cannot be prouder of what my children have achieved.. i do feel its down to my attitude to education.. and nothing whatso ever to do with 'rich' parents

Again its a massive spectrum.30% of those can't even speak and many will never live independently yes of course there will be gifted people with autism but to keep.perpetuting this myth that most people with autism.have a special.talent helps no one and just because you taught a couple of children with autism who were also gifted doesn't change anything .

I would also say that I went to grammar school which had plenty of bright children but perhaps only a couple I think you could consider to be gifted in each class. It is very rare. I think also people like to think those kids were heavily tutored, some had additional tuition because they were sitting gcse’s and a-levels years before other kids but it was because they were able to, not the tutoring in itself which enabled them to be in that position.

I think it’s something sometimes people feel uncomfortable with sometimes, that some people are just smarter than others and they look for unfair advantage.

Personally I think we should have a national G&T programme in state schools. It’s better for everyone if all the clever sods are found and encouraged to maximise their potential (if they want to ofcourse).

Congratulations! 🥂 you are gifted! I think highly gifted is 150+.

Similar here! I am definitely not gifted.

That's not what I said.

Obviously I have taught a fair range of the spectrum of ASD over the years.

The one gifted child I taught I on the spectrum. Equally there are hundreds on the ASD spectrum who are not gifted .

However many gifted people in particular spheres like mathematics and science are ASD. It's not a criticism of being on the autism spectrum. Far from it! It's as much that achieving beyond mere excellence requires a mind that is different and the world is a better place for those geniuses.

This is why investment in state schools is so key. I know lots of kids who tried instruments due to primary school and did well - reduced lesson costs and free instrument loans helped them develop that talent. That should be in every school again.

Ruth Lawrence lived round the corner from my family and had an extremely eccentric parent. She had a gift for mathematics but had a very lonely childhood. Hers was a story of extreme parental support.
Her sister started school a few years below my sister and was a bit of a novelty until everyone realised she was nothing like her sister.

I think today, both Ruth and her father would be diagnosed with ASD it just wasn’t a thing back in the seventies.
Ruth decided that she wouldn’t do the same for her children.

My youngest DS is 'gifted'. Definitely not a well off family. Both myself and his father educated to degree level but only exh has a 'career'.

DS does no afterschool activities/sports/instruments (we tried!) either, His homework is beyond me so I'm no use there!

And definitely no money for tuition. I'm just about paying the bills though his dad could probably afford it if it was needed.

I think truly gifted people can come from any background.
However parental and\or possibly teacher input is pivotal in developing the gift and having opportunities.
For example how would you know you were a gifted musician unless you had access to a musical instrument ?
How would you know you were an exceptional jockey unless you were taken horse riding etc etc.
Maybe academic success is the exception to this as everyone is taught maths , science , english etc. However even then teacher and parent input is vital.
Money definitely helps children with an aptitude or gift to rise to the top- good school, sports or musical tuition, affluent parents who can drive their DC around etc
A friend of mines DS is an excellent tennis player- he went to a private school with brilliant tennis facilities, she doesnt work so drove him round the country to tournaments or coaching sessions. He's now at university in America and they are funding his education and tennis opportunities out there.
He is a brilliant tennis player -natural talent that has also been coached and developed to its absolute maximum potential.
A child with similar aptitude at a state school with parents who worked full time and couldnt ferry them around and couldn't afford the lessons, the kit, the tournaments all over the country and abroad would find it pretty much impossible to be a top level player imo.
Another friends DS represents u18 GB for athletics- brilliant athlete also has exactly the right physique for his field - very lean , tall and long limbed but in order to qualify for GB they travelled round several European athletic tracks to get the right conditions/ wind etc to get the qualifying time. Parents needed to fund this- without this opportunity he wouldn't have qualified for U18 team GB. He has also benefited from parents who encouraged, gave up every weekend and several week nights, paid for coaching and kits etc. He wouldn't be in team GB without them- natural gift or not.

I think today, both Ruth and her father would be diagnosed with ASD it just wasn’t a thing back in the seventies.
Ruth decided that she wouldn’t do the same for her children.

Thats interesting. Are her children very intelligent, I wonder?

I'm the same - very book smart but definitely wouldn't class myself as gifted haha.

One of my children is very very smart- he's only 5 at the moment but way ahead of his peers and I think having more money, living in a better area with better schools etc would help him in life but we'll obviously do what we can to push him forward.

@Barbadossunset
Exactly, those kind of hypotheticals are nonsensical!

But a sport like three-day eventing has enormously high barriers to entry in the first place (having the use of a suitable horse for starters!) so the field of competition is relatively small.

Yes Zara Tindall has a Silver Olympic medal, but I am sure that there are dozens of people of a similar age who could have been equally successful in her discipline, but they never even got the chance to try out the sport. Any form of equestrian competition is a luxury sport that is very expensive to pursue, even at the lower levels.

Skiing also illustrates this pretty well, with the huge practical and financial barriers to entry for British competitive skiers. Whereas French children living in the mountain regions often learn to ski as toddlers then also get to improve their skiing via weekly school sports lessons.

None of this negates the talent of impressive riders or skiers, but I will always contend that there are other factors in their success.

I think from the number of gifted people who are surprised that they are gifted perhaps the few people at my school who looked really gifted at school were highly gifted instead so they really stood out in a class of bright kids 🤷🏽‍♀️.