Aibu to think most "gifted" children come from well off, affluent families?

[Blueballoons1]

Eg start instruments or sports very early, can afford top tuition, often a parent has the skills to teach the dc at home, they have the time & money to travel around the country for events.. Parents oversee practice is done at home.. Whereas they may well be quite medicore compared to a child with raw talent whose parents just cannot afford what it takes..
I just feel for music, sports or academics money & an affluent background is part of the parcel for the majority of "gifted kids"..

I think a child can be naturally gifted in something, but not have the resources to meet their full potential, which is what I think you are saying.

It's not that children from deprived backgrounds aren't naturally gifted in various ways, but without material resources or time resources on behalf of a parent (which usually, but not always cuts into the usual working day) won't have the opportunities that they might have had with more affluence.

I have a child who is naturally gifted in maths (totally doesn't come from dh or I, in fact, I'm rubbish at maths). He's 6. He hasn't gotten it from anywhere other than somewhere in his brain (goes to bog standard state primary). But to encourage it, does take time and effort. We do maths together every night (at his request, I'd frankly rather he just got ready for bloody bed on time!).

But because we have both of us home in the evenings, instead of still at work, it makes this possible. In the longer run, it will take time and attention, because I have to teach myself how to do it before I can do the things he wants to do. I can do that because I have the time and resources and energy (if maybe not the will!).

We aren't 'affluent' though. No private school, no range rovers, no skiing holidays here. But we are comfortable enough to support interests and hobbies, which is obviously not something everyone can easily do.

Success is a mixture of opportunity and talent... and luck.

Well suppprted, well taught and well practised and gifted aren't the same thing.

I've met three or four children who i would consider to be truly gifted in my 20 year teaching career.

Money can buy 'accomplished' and natural ability goes a long way but someone who is gifted is truly something else.

It depends. My bf in Sixth Form (decades ago 😂) was very musically gifted. His family lived on a council estate and I don’t think anyone else was particularly musical. I think he got started at school, joined church choir and then started playing the organ. He just found opportunities.
I agree that having supportive parents is very important though. His were supportive, even though they couldn’t provide any financial help.

A friend’s DD (22) is extremely academic, they haven’t got tons of money, but they are definitely supportive. She’s currently finishing a four-year degree and has been offered free tuition for a Master’s at a top university here in the US. They couldn’t afford tutoring or anything like that, she’s simply cleverer than most of us!

I'm from a very ordinary WC family, dad quite well read, mother semi literate, eg I remember being sent to the shops with a list which included 'shugar'.

My brother was diagnosed as gifted by the school, and went onto uni and has done well in a science career. Ditto for me, not diagnosed as gifted but worked harder and did better academically- my career has been in academia. Other brother who hated school and flunked everything was probably smarter than me and went on to run his own small business and lives a very happy and successful life.

We had no advantages other than a library card and parents who encouraged education because they hadn't had one.

Interesting question. Without data it’s impossible to generalise but I’d hazard a guess that supportive parenting and money does help truly gifted children reach their potential.

Some clubs have bursaries and highly inclusive policies eg drama clubs and I like that some theatres do outreach work to try and reach school kids whose parents might not think of drama themselves.

I think the word 'gifted' here is misleading but over 30% of Britain's medallists at Rio and in London went to private schools. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/aug/22/third-britain-medallists-rio-olympics-private-schools-sutton-trust
The reality is that if you work a zero hours contract, if you have parents who hold multiple jobs or have a chronic illness they cannot provide the input and parental support necessary for this.
I have one child who isn't terrible at chess and one who is exceptionally good at music. Chess isn't expensive to start with, but chess camps are, and travelling for chess tournaments is expensive. Music is very expensive especially the older one gets- changing violin strings can be a 100 USD (we are in the states) or more and a bow re-hair is also expensive. This kind of recurring cost adds up. My son goes to a music conservatory and we pay fees for that and for his individual teachers (he plays 3 instruments). Both DH and I work full time but we also then supervise music practice for both kids.
DH and I are academics and this gives both kids an advantage in that they have a house full of books, and if we don't know something, we know how to access help for our DCs. These are all HUGE structural advantages.
This doesn't mean our children are/are not gifted. It just means that they have the support to excel at the things they might be talented at.

There is a small crop of mathematicians who can truly excel without input. But a lot of the children at Oxbridge studying maths do come from private schools. So there may be individuals who can teach themselves through YouTube but parental support and resources are a huge component of success.

YABU as You are not describing gifted children you are describing bright kids with lots of resources poured into them. By the very definition they wouldn’t be classed as gifted.

I have issues with the assertion all gifted students are autistic. This is clearly not the case. Gifted within the autistic community is only slightly above that of the non autistic population, by about 0.5%.

Parental support of a gifted child will undoubtedly support and progress a talent, money helps, but that isn't the only reason, it can be cultural too.

@PuttingDownRoots
Isn’t it talent, hard work and luck.

No idea about the gifted question though 😀

What’s your view on what constitutes gifted? I know some people who are the very top of their field academically for example and struggle to really understand what is natural intelligence and bloody hard work or a ‘gift’? How would a school recognise that in someone without the typical supportive reasonably monied family?

This.

DS3 is classed as ‘gifted’. He’s on the gifted and talented register at school anyway. He excels in science, maths and ICT - coding and programming which he started off his own back at age 7. Built his own computer at 10. His teachers have always been in awe of him not only academically but also in how mature, kind and helpful he is.

He does not have ASD.

He was born like it. From an early age, he was interested in everything to do with the sciences and would soak it up. Amazing memory. I remember him telling me all about nuclear fission and fusion when he was about 8.

We have 3 older DC. All were encouraged in their education, were read to, taken to stately homes, museums, supported with homework, never a parent’s evening missed. Only one of the older ones is similar to DS3 but not on his level. We are in no way affluent. DH is from a very poor country abroad, I grew up on a council estate and we’re pretty poor even now!

I'm not sure. I know children who excel in sport and music and dance and to reach the level they have has taken a lot of time and money and engagement from their families.

But I can also think of penty of families where there is clearly some kind of genetic/heritable neurodivergence at play, where you see lots of family members who are brilliant, often in quite different different ways from each other, and also lots who really, really don't cope well with school or work or life in general and although parental resources and input have some influence, that influence is a lot smaller than you might expect.

Edited to add that plenty of people fall into both categories.

Gifted isn't something you can coach though. My dd is gifted in music but that's her autism not my income. Ok income meant I could afford lessons but most the instruments she plays she taught herself off the internet (yes I mean orchestral standard, goodness knows how...)

Autism and ADHD are both massive spectrums yes there will be gifted children on the spectrum but it does a massive disservice to suggest all gifted children will be on those spectrums
It also really minimises just how disabling those conditions can be for children who are severely impacted and not gifted

I'd say if you're given music tuition from a young age and stick to it and excel then maybe you're gifted. You could just be well practiced?
With music it's clear if someone if quite far ahead of others. These people can be from any background.
They may not have violin at a high exam level, but modern music tech means they could make drum loops, samples, record vocals, use synthesisers and produce amazing tracks from their bedroom in a council block.

OP I think a better way to think of it is that gifted children from poorer families may struggle to reach their potential due to lack of funding/time?
DS was scouted by a premiership team at a football holiday club. He did a year at the academy. It was all free. But it still required parental time; I often stood at the sideline for 2 hours (parents had to stay) having picked him up from school, battled through town traffic, either having other DC in the car or farmed them out elsewhere. We are a comfortably off family, I have a flexible job…..but even the time and fitting in with family life was a challenge. Add lots of kids, parents working multiple jobs etc and it becomes more challenging to impossible.

Yes we are going back to the idea that children with autism all have a special.talent and that is really not the case .

My dh was a very, very bright child in a very, very poor household. He would take himself off to the library to study and excelled at school because of his own initiiative - his parents (mum was stahp and dad worked away) didn't really give a shit about him so he had to do everything himself. I think there's a difference between genuine intelligence and bought education/activities.

For me, it's displaying unfaltering excellence despite having no parental input/money thrown at it.

Eg I'm a talented musician. My parents invested in me. I had opportunities. I was more capable than my music playing peers at school. I played constantly. I have grade 8 in 2 instruments and grade 5 in another. I can turn my hand to most instruments and play to a reasonable standard quite quickly because I understand how music works. But I work at it and I have to practise.

My friends son is gifted. He can hear a piece of music and play it perfectly and beautifully on the piano despite never having had lessons beyond the basics. He was self taught and he has a phenomenal ear for it.

I once taught a girl whose parents spoke no English and was from a very socially deprived background. She had no extra tuition and entered herself for the 11+ because her parents didnt know how to go about it. She was incredible at maths and didn't drop a mark in her Year 6 SATS and could tell me the answers to maths problems before i had even been able to even begin to approach them because they were way beyond primary maths!

I would consider two of those three examples to show giftedness (hint: I'm not one of them! 😁)

That's exactly like my dad. Grew up in poverty but with a phenomenal photographic memory. He could read and memorise pages of the encyclopaedia at age 4. No one spent any time teaching him anything. He went to a bog standard school and never had any tutors, but breezed through school teaching classmates things the teachers were getting wrong. He passed the exams to the Oxbridge equivalent university (he grew up abroad) to study maths and never had a day of tutoring in his life. He was just naturally gifted with a phenomenal memory. To this day I have never met anyone with a more in-depth knowledge of world history than him. He can recite all dynasties/names/dates/battles etc etc throughout world history. It's unbelievable.

DD is Twice Exceptional - extremely gifted (assessed as) and autistic. We live in one of the most deprived areas in the country and I'm a single parent so there is not tonnes of money floating around. I couldn't afford a car until she was 8. Music lessons are unaffordable but she has always done some sort of extracurricular activity. She hasn't the energy after being exhausted by school to do lots of activities, her autism makes it difficult to do anything that's seen as school work at home. Her autism also makes it difficult to play her sport at anything more than a local competitive level and even then she mostly only makes it to training.

It's just the two of us, what she has had is my undivided attention and living in a house where education and knowledge is valued, we've always taken advantage of free activities in the area and try and say yes to every opportunity. Academically she is high achieving in every subject although her autism means she struggles with the imagination and creative side of English, drama, art.

Talented children ie those who are great at music, sport and art there are free or cheap activities available but interested parents and getting spotted early to get scholarships is more essential.

Yes but a child who is showing huge promise in school violin with a single parent who is working three jobs to keep a roof over their heads & pay for the essential basic needs is not going to have the same opportunities as the child also showing huge promise in school with parents who can then afford top private tuition, upgrade the violin when necessary, afford to bring to competions & camp, gets child into junior orchestratra & has the time & means to bring & collect..

My point is raw talent can only get you so far as a child. A truely talented child still needs parents who firstly appreciate & respect the talent (eg nurturing a talented boys ballet journey when the dad wanted a rugby player) money for tuition, kits, travel & comp fees, knowledge of the talent.. And if not money at least aspiration or an inside knowledge on the parents behalf..

IQ is strongly genetic. So intelligent parents usually have well paid jobs, and therefore afford private school etc.