Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

All my kids are Gen Z (21, 22 and 23). But not incels, so they don't use that terminology.

thank you Jesus !

leaning into faith helped me to to not be jaded & hopeful for the future

I was never at the stage of saying “all men are trash” but I have seen other women get to that stage & relate to how they got there

had I not had good father & some lovely boyfriends maybe I would have reached that point too

sometimes the only ones you feel you can trust are your pets & sometimes you need time out to recalibrate your mindset

It is so crude.

But they will be aware of the terminology

they won’t be confused & ask what body count means

they will know it’s something that their peers talk about even if they personally don’t (or at least haven’t with their parents)

I think men and women can display equally toxic behaviour but the stakes are much higher with men due to their generally higher levels of aggression and violence.

For example, if a man is controlling by nature, he can ultimately enforce that
control through violence because he is physically stronger. Even if he is not
violent, the possibility that they could be can be a tool of his control.

A woman might be similarly controlling, but her method of enforcing it is likely to be different - Tears, moods, silent treatment etc. - with less potential for putting the subject of their control in danger.

who is saying, “all mean are trash”. Some of us have men in our lives that don’t want to be coddled.

Ok, I’m out, the “thank you Jesus” tipped me over the edge 😂😂😂😂

thanks for playing OP. Away back to 4chan.

Am I reading this correctly, your ex-boyfriends had such good values that they made you the person you are today. So effectively you would be jaded if it wasn’t for men! Oh please! What men like to hear this crap, if I started spouting this nonsense I think my husband would be very disturbed.

Their peers aren't incels either, and I have been aware of this terminology for as long as they have. And I am considerably older than you.

As a feminist, incels are a threat to me and the people I love, so I work to be aware and up to date.

erasing terms is something both trans activists & feminists do

people said “promiscuous” is offensive & there should be no new term for it at all because it doesn’t matter & the concept is regressive

just like the term “women” is being erased these days because trans activists feel biological women don’t matter & the concept is regressive

both groups dislike these terms because it’s an uncomfortable reminder of a truth they would prefer to not acknowledge

the reaction if you say the wrong word is the same with both groups too

it doesn’t matter what your point was they will ignore it & focus on the word itself as being “problematic”

labelling you as a problematic person for having said it when you are just trying to describe something factually

side note but not sure if you had the term in UK- here in Australia the term “manwhore” was a popular one & it was a negative term for men who sleep around

they need to bring manwhore back, haven’t heard that one in awhile

wouldn’t a positive male role model like a good father help you avoid becoming jaded towards men though?

so when you hear “all men are trash!” You can think “hmm well dad’s not trash, he treats mum so well…brother isn’t trash, uncles are kind, those boyfriends were lovely too”

and so you can question that kind of sweeping statement as it doesn’t ring true for you

how would we know not all men are trash unless we have good experiences with them?

wouldn’t say, a girl who has had an absent father be more inclined to believe all men are trash because the one man who should have been there for her wasn’t? So she struggles to trust them?

it’s not a given but the likelihood increases significantly, no?

but many experiences have made me who I am today, not relating to men

just because am discussing the influence of good men in my life here doesn’t mean men are the only influence to me

I would say experiences with all the men I’ve known have had a big effect on me both positively & negatively

many feminists love to examine the huge negative impact of men to women but not consider the positives too

So you’re saying your Gen Z kids won’t know the term or be able to discuss the term “body count” as an abstract concept?

purely because they & their friends aren’t incels?

Yet you yourself know it because you keep up to date with Gen Z content

you’ve never considered teaching them why body count doesn’t matter ?

that topic is to embarrassing to discuss so perhaps don’t really know what their thoughts are on the topic?

if you found out today your kids were sleeping with strangers every weekend it wouldn’t at all concern you?

I think when someone is a young adult it isn’t something that is any of your business. But even if it did, why would you use that hideous term.

don’t trans activists also say we don’t need a term for women

that we should stop being so obsessed with people’s private parts

that if people want to discuss their gender identity they’re likely to feel more comfortable doing so in the company of other LGBTQs who can share their “lived experience”

oh then added a nice little personal attack at the end to round it off

& a final warning that if we continue to use terms they don’t like we run the risk of people thinking we are a ”transphobe”

see how feminists & trans activists read from the exact same script ?

I know what you mean, OP. Mean girls from school who carry on into adulthood.

Also - I'm tired of the naff and corny trope of women being obsessed with wine/gin. I just groan when I see greetings cards on that theme. It's been done to death!

I think people who buy into that idea (the wine obsession) see themselves as hip and happening, young-at-heart types, as opposed to being boring and middle-aged. But in my experience that's not the impression they give to others!

@JordanPeterson just start a journal mate.

i Don’t use the term Body count

someone else brought it up a few pages ago

you still didn’t answer the question as to whether it would bother you if you found out your kids were sleeping with random strangers every weekend

even if you claim it isn’t your business, how does the idea make you feel? Proud, concerned, ambivalent?

Are the examples just your ideas? Can't see any research to back this. Where are you getting your research from that this is a common occurance amongst women and not just another stereotype?

As for the infanticide stats. It could be to do with the vast majority of child care being carried out by women. So, for example, 0.1%of women as the main carer and 2% of men as the main carer commiting infanticide could work out the same number. IYSWIM.

Yes thank you, the cliche of the toxic mean girl queen bee & the cliques that carry onto adulthood

but feminists will just claim this is not an example, it just shows how women can be destined to become natural leaders just like men & the clique is a proverbial army

or maybe that the patriarchy pressures women into forming close knit groups because men are dangerous, our instinct is to isolate ourselves & seek female companionship so that’s why cliques exist

that men drink wine/gin too, so it’s people n general who fetishise these drinks, not a woman thing

or that this trope is perpetuated by the patriarchy, to encourage us to drink to excess so they can take advantage, exploit & sexually assault us

😒

whatever valid point it will be disregarded

erasing terms is something both trans activists & feminists do
And politicians too - ours don't like using the word ;poverty' to describe - well, poverty.

people said “promiscuous” is offensive & there should be no new term for it at all because it doesn’t matter & the concept is regressive
just like the term “women” is being erased these days because trans activists feel biological women don’t matter & the concept is regressive
You're comparing apples and spermn whales here. The term 'promiscuity' is rooted in moral judgement. The word 'woman' is not, it's an accurate word for 'adult human female'. I'm by no means a GC feminist, but I'm no TRA either.

both groups dislike these terms because it’s an uncomfortable reminder of a truth they would prefer to not acknowledge
In the case of promiscuity, it isn't a truth - it's an opinion. There's no accurate definition of what constitutes promiscuity after all.

Wow, you've just reached a whole new level of putting words into my mouth. I didn't say ANY of that. Of course my kids know the term. As do their peers. They don't use it though, because it's an incel term and they aren't incels. They don't ask their peers how many partners they've had, because it's none of their business.

As for whagt I've taught them - I'm Dutch. Believe me, they know what they need to know, and now that they are living their own independent adult lives, they are equipped to learn anything else they need to know for themselves. The topic of sex is only embarrassing if you're embarrassed to talk about sex - being Dutch, we're not.

If I found out my kids were sleeping with strangers every weekend (and for all I know they are - it isn't my business!) then I'd just ask them whether they were practising safe sex, ensuring their own safety and ensuring they enjoyed it.

But that isn't 'toxic femininity', it's just people behaving like twats.

but feminists will just claim this is not an example, it just shows how women can be destined to become natural leaders just like men & the clique is a proverbial army

No, we will argue that that isn't toxic femininity, because this is toxic femininity

You haven't bothered to read it, have you?

I just literally can't imagine asking someone that question (in either format). It's prurient and parochial. And literally none of my business. I don't know how many people my partner has slept with, and he's never asked me. We've been together 15 years and have two children. It's not important.

Hasn’t the whole “body count” thing come from right wing misogynist Twitter- would suggest anyone interested in the connotations of the term does a search on there (don’t use your work computer though 🤢)