Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

if you’d prefer I used the term “choice” not promiscuous how do you apply it to a sentence?

”I hear Keith is kind of choice”

”Eunice regrets being choice in the past”

”I choiced a lot back in the day & regret it”

it you are sleeping with many people you are hardly being “choosy” are you

if you don’t like “promiscuous” (and it is quite clinical) then maybe “sleeping around” makes the most sense as it is just descriptive not derogatory sounding

Can't imagine ever needing to comment on Keith or Eunice on account of not being a judgemental busybody who discusses the sex lives of others. If referring to myself I might go with 'had multiple casual sexual partners' or if I wanted something snappier 'multiple ONS'.

This is a completely mad read 🤣 Your objection was to the 'free' part of 'free choice'. So your examples would originally have read like "I hear Keith is free choice". Eh??

If you're looking for alternatives to 'promiscuous', there are plenty but none features the word 'choice'.

We don't need a term, we just need to keep out of other people's sex lives. And if the person in question does want to discuss it, they're likely to be in the company of people they are comfortable with, so the words don't matter much.

If you're a judgy twat talking about someone who isn't present, you can also use whatever terminology you like, at the risk of people thinking you're a judgy twat.

Promiscuous means indiscriminate. I've had sex with quite a few men. I did NOT choose them at random. I DID exercise choice!

Or we could simply stop concerning ourselves with who and how many people someone who isn't us sleeps with and in what context, given it is literally none of our fucking business. If you choose to describe yourself as promiscuous, fill your boots. But it doesn't really have a meaning beyond "more than one" as "many" is highly subjective. Would a woman who was with her childhood sweetheart for 30 years, was widowed, and then had a new partner for 20, be "promiscuous"? After all, that is both "sex outside marriage" and "more than one sexual partner". But some how I don't think that's what you mean. So effectively your definition is "having sex, outside of a monogamous committed relationship, with more than one person"?

Seriously though I don't know why I'm bothering. The only people I've ever heard talking about "body counts", "high quality/high value men/women", and with such a vicious preoccupation with feminists as the destroyers of all that is good and pure, are right wing incel blokes without qualifications who resent the fact that they are not entitled to a woman. Such people are not susceptible to rational discussion.

Ah! I understand now! You’re not a real person at all, you’re a character from Hollyoaks who has somehow got out of the tv! That’s the only possible reason for this very important discussion about Keith and Eunice’s sexual escapades.

why are you so concerned about this anyway? People upthread pointed out that
promiscuous was a loaded term. But you can still use it when discussing Keith, Eunice and whoever else’s sexual partners you wish, we’re not stopping you - but presumably this is after splitting off from “the guys” with “the girls” as per your previous sitcom-inflected scenarios?

Banning the term promiscuous doesn’t stop it’s existence

like the term “woman”

we call them “pregnant people” now but it doesn’t mean women don’t exist, does it

just means we aren’t supposed to say that anymore

because some people would prefer to believe it doesn’t exist or shouldn’t matter

language doesn’t work like that, just because you think something shouldn’t be said because you don’t like it doesn’t mean the term should not be used by anybody

if you don’t like the term don’t use it, simple

Who said that the term promiscuous should be banned, and what body would we ask to do this?

and I do not call pregnant women pregnant people. Because I am pro-women, and anti-nonsense. So how has the term been banned, if I still use it?

The term woman is an identifier, a label if you will, for a person who is an adult human female. The term promiscuous is a label to describe a person who...well...what exactly? Has numerous sexual partners? Has numerous sexual partners they don't know well? How many is 'numerous'? How well is not well? But, most importantly why would we even need to give a person a label based on that? If its necessary to reference their sexual history we can simply speak in terms of objective behaviours. I/she/he had multiple one night stands.

yes I guess you could use the term “body count”

but in general avoid terms coined by Gen Z & that language doesn’t come naturally to me

to me a body count relates to how many people a person has killed, like a hit man’s body count

while it’s somewhat clever term I also think it makes light of it too

if you would prefer I use body count then can from now on in this conversation

I guess the term makes me a bit sad, because people used to have to ask “how many people have you slept with”

but now it’s “what’s your body count” which is a shorter sentence & leads me to think this is something younger people feel the need to ask each other regularly now, because high body counts are common

when the amount of words in the sentence reduces it’s often because people have had to invent a shorter way of saying it to save time for ease of communication

Well, people didn't have to ask how many people* *someone had slept with, and they still don't, because it's none of their business. I didn't ask my late husband, nor did he ask me. We chose to trust each other, like actual adults.

'Body count' is an incel term, not a general young people term.

Well the number is subjective

sleeping with “many” people will mean different things to different people

i would say have slept with many people & my number is over 30 now to be transparent

i should hope you would think this is a lot too & if you don’t that is rather concerning

& for the record in hindsight only 3-4 can look back fondly on as a great experience

the rest I wish had not done in hindsight & dislike that these random men knew me that way

you may say who cares just write it off as experience & your wild past!

but I do believe every time you are with someone new you share something together & it takes a piece of you & can become damaged or jaded from that lifestyle

it seems to be that when we are damaged & have had multiple negative experiences with men we tend to either become bitter towards them “all men are bastards!” and avoid them, lean into our pets for love & want to be away from all men

or we double down, become more promiscuous but numb towards intimate relationships & emotionally avoidant (may be coupled with other drug/alcohol use)

both are coping mechanisms we can use to deal with that trauma

Since I’m apparently committed to this shit show….

if how many is “many” is subjective, then what does promiscuous mean? Why do you need a word for something you cannot define?

does it mean “someone who has had more sexual partners than I, the speaker, deem appropriate”?

what is your proposition, you’ve slept with ‘many people’ but you think that this is wrong and a law should be introduced about it? I don’t really understand what your wanting from this.

No they don’t have to ask

but the invention of a new widespread term like “body count” does suggest that it means Gen Z are asking it & talking about it regularly though doesn’t it

if you have teenagers or older wouldn’t they all know what that term meant?

if you have teens maybe ask them & see what their thoughts are on how common it is to ask or if it matters whether someone has a high body count ?

I can’t comment for Gen Z but parents here will have their fingers on the pulse more

Also, I thought you posted that you are not jaded and had good men around you with good values a few posts back.

I think that is a very odd discussion to have with your older teen.

YANBU.
In my opinion both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity are just that, toxic.
You see it on here sometimes.
Women if they commit a crime must have done it because they were bullied into it by a man (not saying that never happens, but it's not always the case) it minimises and excuses away behaviour.
Bitching about others, nasty cliques.
How we all need to be protected/segregated, always painting us as victims.
NAWALT (not all women are like that) disclaimer for the inevitable "how dare yous!" onslaught coming.... 🙄😁

OP is getting confused if their persona is “anti-feminist who thinks men are great and anyone who doesn’t has obviously not got any good men around them and feminists are all bitter” or “reformed sexual adventurer who wants to warn young women of the errors of sleeping with 30 men like feminists want to make them”

A law? Who mentioned any laws?

plenty of things are potentially risky but we don’t instill laws for them

we just give people a balanced idea of the risk vs reward so they can make an educated decision

eg: Skydiving is the ultimate thrill & no experience like it they say, but we all know there is a risk your parachute may not open & you will die

plenty of people skydive with no problem & wild stories but people also die regularly too

people don’t insist that we not talk about the whole parachute not opening issue, because that will offend skydivers do we

Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Although not sure what drinking wine has to do with anything

Chat GPT is that you?

Yes, it seems that way, certainly confusing!