Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

what makes you think no man has met my standards?

maybe I have grown up & live with men of good Standards & values so have positive examples of male role models

it does help you not become jaded by men & stops me sneering at them like the dirt under my shoe, that’s for sure

Same. I'll leave you to your bitterness and self-loathing. I'm off to change all the electrical sockets in my new kitchen. Despite having a man 😱. But not a real one, I guess.

At least it’s just some simple electrical sockets & not heavy lifting, right

who installed your kitchen & did all that rewiring in the roof cavity by the way?

just curious

Yet you never see Western feminists flying over en masse to Afghanistan or storming the Israel Palestine border in a brave attempt to help all the real oppressed women do you

best leave the actual fighting the problems in far off lands to the men hey

all the online petitions & peaceful protests in the comfort of your homeland will surely take effect soon

Whoa, the mask is officially off.

I'm single. If I need wiring doing, I will pay an electrician. Female electricians exist, I might end up with one.

Other than that, I do all my own heavy lifting. I'm tall and strong. Amazingly, some women are!

My late husband was not good at any DIY and would (sensibly) not have messed about with wiring, because that way lies death.

I'd say the majority of wives have been abused by their husbands throughout history.

In the 1950s and beyond, advice like "Lie back and think of England" and "Just let him get on with it" were common currency. I know this because, as a small child in the 50s, I knew these phrases without understanding their significance.

The majority of wives put up with forced sex. Marital rape wasn't a crime until the 1990s.

One way to see how wives have been abused by husbands is to look at changes in the law. It's been found necessary to pass laws:

• Regulating the thickness of the rod a man may use to beat his wife (1782)
• Permitting women to seek divorce (1857)
• Granting a wife's ownership of money she earned and property she inherited (1870)
• Punishing penetrative sex with a girl under 12 years old (1861)
• Granting a wife control of her own money and property (1882)
• Removing a husband's right to beat his wife (1891)
• Limiting wife-beating to the daytime in the City of London, because the noise was a nuisance (1895)
• Defining the crimes of rape and indecent assault (1956)
• Removing a violent husband from the marital home (1976)
• Criminalising FGM (1985)
• Making it illegal to rape your wife (1991)

This list isn't exhaustive. It demonstrates that all the abuses legislated for were in practice. It's absurd to claim otherwise. From the 1970s onwards, legal changes have focused on closing the loopholes that rendered much of the earlier laws ineffective.

best leave the actual fighting the problems in far off lands to the men

well men and women…

Honestly, when people go on and on about men building houses and doing forestry and taking out the bins and bashing intruders over the head, it just smacks of begging for a participation prize. What do you want me to say, oh yes, well done boys, thank you for the houses, what a bunch of good boys you are! Isn’t that patronising? Why do men need so much congratulation that you have to point out at every opportunity that they construct things?

Meanwhile; women made all the people that exist, have ever existed and will ever exist. If men suddenly disappeared, I’m pretty sure women would work out how to build houses. If women suddenly disappeared, men would have a harder time working out how to gestate a foetus I reckon.

edit to add: damn I forgot to say “us women” instead of just “women”!

I'm starting a "stop feeding the incel apologist" support post. I have an essay about Jane Austen to mark, a fanfic to write, some arancini to make for a meeting with friends tonight and a room to undercoat. You?

Work, then i am going to make some easter cookies

When you hire a tradesperson you tend to go for the one who has the best recommendation & good reviews

sounds like the electrician was a man & as your husband was not up to the task another man had to be called in,

I hope he helped to pay for the electrician at least & you went 50/50 on the invoice as a sign of equality

I trust you will select the female sparky based on her consistent 5 star reviews & choose her based on merit

never once needed a man to help you lift anything, ever…

you must be the exception to the rule, but exceptions don’t disprove a rule…

may want to consider joining that women’s weightlifting team & knock out the bloke who is pretending to be a woman

do it for the sisterhood

Again, so what?? Why do I have to dwell gratefully on the fact most electricians are men?
do you go around telling men to be grateful most cleaners are women? nurses? Etc etc. Or is it just the male jobs we all have to recognise?

gosh. It’s nearly like someone needs to actually think about how labour is accorded value in our society….gotta be something in that right? Maybe some sort of political movement could have a look.

I have zero men in my household, but women working together can lift heavy things. Yay for the sisterhood!

What do you do if someone breaks in? I am so relieved to have my husband in such times. He also insisted that he fitted the long lightbulb for the under lighting in the cupboard, I again was so pleased that he came to the rescue! I totally forgot that he offered to this and fitted it anyway, I couldn’t believe it, I had light and I really didn’t realise my own strength!

You don’t have to dwell on why most electricians are men

but in the interest of understanding the flaws of feminist theory it wouldn’t be a bad idea to try

most industrial & business cleaners here are men, women seem to prefer house cleaning jobs ironically

most nurses are women because when men go into medicine they tend to aim for top tier roles requiring many years of intense study & working crazy hours

women tend to choose medical jobs that will offer them long term work life balance to prioritise raising families.

you can’t have the male brain surgeon insisting his shift is over, he must dash to pick his kids up from school & tapping out mid-operation

he might be a lazy bastard at home but perhaps his poor downtrodden wife drives a Range Rover, doesn’t need or want to work & has a housekeeper + nanny so she can enjoy her free time and pursuits

you have to take the good with the bad sometimes

I can’t imagine dating a brain surgeon & complaining about his hours worked when he is literally saving lives

of course the wife could be a high powered lawyer too

perhaps if they have kids they are in boarding school, as the parents wouldn’t even have time to see them, surely

Well it looks someone’s husband here is handy with electrical work

stop gloating Goldenbear, some of us have no choice but to search for a female electrician to support the sisterhood

perhaps in time the gender split or electricians will reach 50/50 so they are easier for us to find & we can hire them on merit rather than simply because of their sex

It’s a shame it’s not 50/50 split right now, but it’s yet another example of the patriarchy holding us all back from our collective dreams of doing tradeswork as a lifelong career

Watch out boys, Pointythings & her girlfriends will be building skyscrapers next & coming for all your backbreaking manual jobs

Initially I was annoyed by your posts but here you are all this time still rambling and ranting. I just feel a bit sorry for you now. You seem quite unhappy and angry. I hope you find some joy in your life rather than blaming your many problems on women. Best of luck.

What's interesting is, women make up almost 50% of doctors in the UK now (pretty amazing given how short a time, in the scheme of things, they have been allowed to practice). And yet still manage to do the job properly, raise children and meet their domestic obligations, WITHOUT having a little man at home (with a Range Rover or otherwise). It's almost like it's a question of expertise, efficiency, time management and boundaries, instead of some sort of dick-swinging endurance contest that has to come at the expense of playing a proper role in your family.

do you believe feminist theory has not considered the question of why certain jobs are overwhelmingly performed by men? That error could be corrected by, you know, looking at some feminist analysis. There’s decades of it. it takes into account the systematic forces behind why men and women choose the types of jobs that they do, and questions why some types of labour are valued more than others.

I’ve built a few skyscrapers, along with my female colleagues. We have laws regarding manual lifting, so you be surprised how little manual handling is involved as we try and avoid where possible. The person who was in charge of lifting the most weight was our female crane driver. Unsurprisingly no man was bothered or even found it remarkable.

I’ve still not seen you answer why you’re displaying so much female toxicity on here when seemingly no other person is?

And yes this guy is increasingly pathetic and incoherent. Literally cannot string together a single argument, and has now just resorted to a sort of sixth form sarcasm that sits at odds with his pseudo-professorial posturing in the first few pages. Still it's good to have the evidence, as if if were required, that these goons do walk among us.

Yes, I love the idea that men in modern construction are apparently shoving skyscrapers together with their bare hands 😂 things have come on a bit since the apocryphal photo of the burly chaps eating their sarnies on a girder OP.

I don’t think you actually realise the implication of your own arguments you know.

Men have historically done a lot
of work outside the home. For a long time women were limited in what studies and professions they could practice. Now that these limitations are lifting, women are entering industries that were previously the domain of men.
….and yet, as you point out, women still bear the brunt of the child and domestic care. It’s what’s called “the second shift”.

so. This leads to all the questions feminism asks - have men only been able to be so successful because women were doing the boring, backbreaking unseen work of child rearing and domestic management? (Yes). When women do more work outside the home, does this result in a redistribution of domestic labour? (no)

Why do women “come for” what you call men’s jobs? Because they are interesting, challenging, and valued by society.

why do men NOT, even when asked,
”come for” traditional women’s jobs of child rearing and domestic labour?….because it’s boring, monotonous and backbreaking.

none of this is new thought. Women far cleverer than me have been pointing it out for decades. Not sure how it’s completely passed you by. Maybe you were too busy worshipping electricians I dunno.

Ok, let’s try this

@JordanPeterson what do you want?

seriously, what do you want to come out of this? Feminism exists, and whether you like to admit it or not it’s done a lot for us. I can vote, have my own bank account, live a child free, marriage less happy existence. So what do you want society to look like?