Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

Also lots of songs written by women that are questioning the shitty hand they’ve being served by men, Lots of Amy Winehouse songs focus on the true messiness of love and romance, the ‘choices’ women have over their own desires. Whether you are labelling things as promiscuous is neither here nor there, it’s about freedom of choice to make good or bad decisions.

1% cannot be used to generalise for 99% of marriage

citing exceptions & pretending that makes it a rule isn’t a great argument

plenty of women back in the 50s we’re vocal about not supportive my feminism & enjoyed the responsibility of being in charge of the home, feminists are historically a fringe group of extremists after all

shockingly many women were even in charge of the family finances & the husbands handed over the pay packet to the wife, forcing her to be in charge of budgeting so every penny could be squeezed

Been not ‘being’.

About love songs. It's fascinating if you actually read the lyrics how many of them are versions of "I'm a complete arse, but here's a song"

Yes, absolutely this. Why do we romanticise possessiveness.

As in past romance songs often about a notion of a man seeing his woman as his!

Amy Winehouse is one of my favourite artists

did you know she was quite open about her history of promiscuity & even sang about it?

is it possible Amy was damaged by her various relationships with unhealthy men & formed a pattern of behaviour that was counterproductive to achieving the true lasting love which she sang about?

is it possible if Amy’s father was more present & engaged in her life that he may have taken an interest in who she dated , would have liked to have had a say or meet the boys she was hanging out with & might even have encouraged her to settle down a good Jewish boy from a nice family?

instead Amy was allowed the total freedom to be as liberated as she liked & now we have all this beautiful music as her legacy

she may still be alive today had she chosen differently & had a good man for a father, but sadly we will never know, will we

Love songs are written to appeal to women. Do you really think all those teenage boybands believe the shite they sing about? It's about making money. There is a reason why romance books and romance movies are aimed at women. They don't reflect men's fantasies. Porn does that.

None of it is real life.

Feminism killed Amy Winehouse. 🥴

Trust a feminist to twist a sweet love song referring to someone being “theirs” as a sign of mysogyny

when you fall madly in love to the point that you are compelled to write a love song, wouldn’t you want to shout from the rooftops that person is “yours” because you’re so proud to be the one to stand beside them? Not because you “own” them in an oppressive sense

true love feels like freedom, not oppression

Women don’t write love songs about men, heard it all now

using backstreet boys as an example & ignoring the love songs of entire genres like say Motown, soul or r&b

men don’t like any of those music genres do they

you really nailed that one!

Again, it's about making money. It's about getting attention. Writing love songs will get you more money and attention than writing about your favourite football team.

Where is your evidence that 99% of marriages in the 50s were fiiiiiine?

In terms of feminism in the 50s - we don't live there anymore, and if the majority of women back then disapproved of feminism, I could say they must have been indoctrinated by the patriarchy (see what I did there?).

Where is your evidence that feminists are a fringe group of extremists? (BTW your true colours are showing there...)

We romanticise possessiveness yes

perhaps because in a relationship it’s an unspoken rule that it’s the man’s responsibility to protect his partner with his life; if necessary

when a robber comes through the window at night, if the man starts shaking & tells his female partner to go investigate because he is too scared to do it

that woman would break up with him afterwards, he would be seen as having failed her in her moment of need & put her in harm’s way

Good god.

Have you read the news this morning about the Taliban? Have you heard about the women of Afghanistan? One example.

The mass rapes of women in Israel (or any country where war is taking place)? Another one

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make really.

Yup, because everything that is wrong in the world is feminists' fault. We're extremists. Better report ourselves to Prevent! 😂

Why are you telling me what true love feels like, I know what it feels like but I disagree that it is as simplistic as all sweet nothings about each other

I think you’ve really misunderstood Amy Winehouse’s music, she was deliberately rejecting notions of a ‘lady’ who knew her place, she writes about real female desire, the messiness of love and the female predicament of suffering at the hands of men.

It really sounds like you have a fantasy in your head about love and life, but because no man has met that standard, you think it's because everyone has been tainted by feminism/progression.

I really do think you just have unrealistic ideas and expectations of people. "Love" has never been as simple as it is in songs. Men have never been like they are portrayed in the movies. Life has never been like you imagine it was in the past.

Where is your reading comprehension that I am responding to the poster’s reference that “even an abuse statistic of 1% is too much” (paraphrasing)

if 1% of women are abusive that is also too much

we know women can be abusive too, because narcissistic mothers exist

and hazard a guess narcissistic women are more than 1%

if Stately Homes thread is anything to go by, at least…

yes all the women who disagrees with feminist agenda back then indoctrinated, they did not possibly know their minds

I guess they were reprogrammed successfully after being assured they would have a choice to work or not

if only they had read the fine print & understood it would lead to being forced into the workplace in future, & didn’t realise how dog tired they would be having to work as well as managing home life & juggling childcare

One of the worst things about Mumsnet is the threads which you know are goady/ baiting/bullshit/stirring but you just can't keep away from. This is a classic example.

how can there be a meaningful rule that a man must protect his female partner AND it be statistically irrefutable that the most dangerous person to a woman is a man she lives with? Both of those things can’t be true, and the second one is true, so the first one cannot be true.

You don't seem to get that the majority of female pressures, hurdles, competitions between same sex, etc is down the patriarchal ideals on how women should be and what they should do. We have been raised that way by society, sadly.Now...im out of here because theres no reasoning with you.

It's like picking a scab...

Men don't protect their partners because they are men. They do it because they are generally stronger and are more able to take on an equally large intruder. My DH fell off a roof once and broke both legs (dont ask 🤦🏻‍♀️). He would have been useless in a break-in. Who would have had to attempt to defend everyone then? Me. Sex/gender has nothing to do with it. It's about risk.

It starts off the typical...can you answer me a question seemingly innocent then it goes into incel territory real quick. I don't have to put up with it anymore, being an independent woman with choices 🤣 Adios OP.