Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

Your problem is that your premise is incorrect. Feminism doesn't 'celebrate promiscuity'. It promotes choice, equality, freedom and responsibility.

Your false premise invalidates your entire argument.

Why can you not stop blaming feminism and women for your own unhappiness? Look in the mirror and decide to make changes. You are not a victim.

Nobody here has a problem with you having a point of view. We just refuse to accept that it is the only right one, because we have a different point of view. If you were to accept that your opinion is just that and stop posting as if you are the arbiter of wisdom who speaks for all women, this could be a proper discussion.

funny in today’s world many people will reminisce about days past & how life was better back then

but if someone expresses an opinion that male/female relationship dynamics have deterioriated & that we are becoming more adversarial against each other

then days of yesteryear are scoffed at?

I guess grandma & grandpa who were together for 60 years & built a beautiful life together just missed out, they would have been much happier in life had they thrown caution to the wind, shagged all over town & truly empowered themselves…

I don’t think your arguments demonstrate ‘nuance’, there’s lots of sweeping generalisations about both sexes like the fact that men don’t think about being kind, the arguments are binary not nuanced. I don’t know anybody that fits these basic gender descriptions.

It is you who is calling it "promiscuity", though. That is your interpretation of what others call "free choice". It sounds like you want more emotional experiences from sex, but for some reason engaged in ONS (which the whole purpose of is just physical satisfaction). Obviously this isn't going to be fulfilling for you in that case. But plenty of women enjoy one-night stands, without regret, because that is what they want. Your issues around sex are your issues. They do not apply to all women. If you want a meaningful relationship, don't have ONS.

Just because people like nostalgia, that doesn't mean life was better in all its aspects in the past. And not everyone has those rose tinted specs on, either.

You can't extrapolate to the whole world from your personal experience. People are all different, want different thing, have different outcomes. This is a basic thing you seem unable to grasp.

I guess grandma & grandpa who were together for 60 years & built a beautiful life together just missed out, they would have been much happier in life had they thrown caution to the wind, shagged all over town & truly empowered themselves…

Grandma, who had no choice but to lie there while grandpa rutted away on top of her because it was his right to do so, causing her to have multiple children whom she had no choice but to do the rearing of because that was a woman's job.

Sounds like a great life. For a man. But I'd rather stay in this century where I have options in life and don't have to accept my husband raping me, thanks.

How can I possibly be speaking for all women?

Majority of us are indoctrinated by feminist belief, it permeates western culture now

warning of risks & wanting to discuss toxic attitudes amongst women is not speaking for all women, it’s questioning current attitudes in our culture

Like Trans, feminism is presented as fact when they are ideologies

The impact of socio-political ideologies that have permeated society should be questioned & dissected, but you have to be prepared to cop flack for it when you stick your neck out

you won’t be representing the sentiment of the majority of people at the time, but perhaps in years to come they may see or even respect your point of view

Only time will tell….

for now, 25% of people agree so it pleases me greatly that 1/4 of those polled appear to not indoctrinated

shame they are seemingly too scared to post though, but judging by the scorn & personal attacks here, who can blame them

Or maybe the 25% is responding to the "toxic femininity" question, but can't post anything because the discussion isn't even about toxic femininity.

If only 25% agree with you, then perhaps the majority of women haven't been indoctrinated - we are just feminists. You seem to see us as weak willed and gullible, unable to decide for ourselves and vulnerable to any old ideology. How patronising.

Nobody has poured scorn. We have disagreed with you.

Yes every grandma & grandpa had an awful life, never possibly experienced love

all the grandmas had to put up with those grandpas essentially raping them & forcing them to not work so they could raise children while he chose to work, what a bastard. Manual labour is so much fun, why didn’t he just let her live?

grandma would surely have found true love & fulfillment if had only shagged the whole football team

nobody thinks it romantic or endearing to see an old couple holding hands - it’s not cute at all, it’s pathetic & a sign of oppression so grandma doesn’t run away from grandpa at the shop

when you hear of old married couples dying soon after the other it’s not because they died of a broken heart, it’s simply because they were oppressed & codependent

Again with the sweeping statements! Of course some traditional couples were blissfully happy. My parents were. But some won't have been.

And of course most people are happy to see an older couple who have had a great life together for decades - why wouldn't they?

But equally that doesn't mean we all want the same thing. Stop generalising and accept that we are all different and that we are allowed to live our lives the way we want.

Please provide me with a suitable term that doesn’t use the word “free” in the title

is “sleeping around” ok with you or is that one a no go too?

its like when trans activists insist we call it “gender affirming care”

they may insist we call it “care” but it’s not caring to give kids sex change surgeries & cross sex hormones

So you can keep insisting that the only acceptable terms we use must have “free” in the title but that doesn’t mean they are, as they aren’t free of consequences or taking personal responsibility are they?

ahh the policing of terms & rejection of any terms they don’t like that mean the exact same thing

you really have to respect the commitment a far lefty has to cling to their delusions by using language tricks & insisting everyone else uses their language so as to maintain the delusion

promiscuity in the dictionary is defined as
having or involving many sexual partners : not restricted to one sexual partner or few sexual partners.

but we all know dictionary definitions mean nothing anymore, because the dictionary terms man/woman are wrong & harmful now too, apparently…

People stayed together in those days because they had no option. It doesn't mean they were happy together. I mean, if women were happy with that life, why did they fight to change it? It wasn't men who created the feminist movement. It wasn't men who fought for freedom. It was women.

I don't understand why you think there are only two possible options for women. You neither have to marry the first man you meet at 18 or shag a whole football team. I didn't do either. I've never had a ONS, but I've had more than one relationship because I didn't want to settle for a man that wasn't going to be right for me. I'm married now, but I would have no problem leaving him if he turned into a bastard. I don't know what is wrong with you that you don't think women should have these options. You've made mistakes in life, but at least you had the freedom to make those mistakes.

Please provide me with a suitable term that doesn’t use the word “free” in the title

OK - Choice.

How about just "choice".

Who says women want to be free of consequences or responsibility?

Why shouldn't dictionary definitions change as language and society change?

Why is it 'far lefty' to not want to use misogynist or judgemental language?

Have a scroll through the news today. It's pretty much all scary and shit.

Then ask, how much of that is caused by women.

Doesn't seem very "toxic" in comparison does it? And is "toxic" now the new word for people falling out?

Also, where did anyone say you can't say promiscuity? You can call it whatever you want. Other people call it something different. The words people choose are a reflection of their view on the matter. You have a negative view. Others don't.

would you say the majority of grandmas were being abused by grandpa? By “some” do you mean a minority, half?

how many grandmas were putting up with the forced sex you described?

or were you actually taking an extreme & using it as an example to suggest that in the 1950s grandmas were being routinely assaulted by grandpa?

people don’t generally want to love & be loved in life ?

how did all those love songs throughout history get written ? Nobody was singing from the heart?

Just scroll back, I have been told not to use this term repeatedly by multiple posters & that it is offensive/outdated/misogynistic

thank you for being a voice of reason that the term promiscuous is not intended to be used offensively & is merely a dictionary definition

Well, it wasn't until 1992 that rape in marriage became illegal. Until then, women couldn't say no if their husbands insisted. So it's impossible to answer the question of how many wives were sexually abused in the 1950s because the law says none of them.

Ha! It is misogynistic and therefore offensive to some people, but it is still your right to use it, and it is still other people's right to judge you for using it. Words matter. If you use them, be prepared to defend them.

It doesn't matter what % of older women were abused by their husbands and were unable to leave, because even 1 is unacceptable.

The feminist movement didn't happen because women were oh so happy with their situation.

I disagree with @HollyKnight because essentially you (OP) are judging me because I have had some ONS. And nobody has the right to judge what other people do when it's legal and with full consent. That moral straitjacket belongs in the bin.

Yes there are these wars going on started by men

encouraging countless men to abandon their families, run off with the boys & go on a murderous rampage

these men may claim to be defending their countries & dying for them but really, all those soldiers just use that as an excuse to be violent

& while they begrudgingly allow women to join the army now, they don’t even want them on front line, but relegate them to lesser than roles under the guise of “keeping us safe”

while we all sit at home, read the news & worry, it’s just not fair on us is it…

not to mention all the men killing & abusing us all

even if we are in a life threatening situation & call the police for help, it’s possible that a male policeman will rock up instead of a policewoman & try to take charge, who wants that in a life or death situation, right

crime rates are skyrocketing too & if I am robbed in the street what I’m really looking for is a group of women nearby to assist - wouldn’t dare to call out to a random bloke & expect him to act in a misogynistic old fashioned way & play my hero, I’d rather just rely on the sisterhood to come save the day & outrun that nasty male thief

we live in a dangerous society & it would be safer for women if all men would just stop trying to feel the need to protect us & leave law + order to the women