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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Being called Mrs *-*

772 replies

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:00

I'm married and a Ms My Last Name - His Last Name (hubby also double-barrelled when we married).
So why do so many people insist on addressing me as a Mrs?! AIBU to be annoyed by this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
T1Dmama · 23/03/2024 00:33

To be fair the teachers that I know are Ms I do email Dear Ms xx, I do try to get their title correct… I don’t think I could get annoyed about someone getting my title wrong though.. in fact I often sign off as Mrs XX & their response is using my Christian name .. I find that ruder than if they responded miss or Ms XX. Or when people shorten names … for example one of my ex’s dads just decided to called me ‘K’ rather than my full name… till I called him ‘T’ instead of his name!!
If I didn’t know someone’s title though I’d probably play it safe and call them Ms…. But this seems to be more of a modern thing so older generations I think will still sway toward Mrs

WhateverMate · 23/03/2024 00:35

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:31

@WhateverMate I work in a huge primary with many other women, most of whom are also married. I'm literally the only one who isn't a Mrs. Nearly everyone therefore (pupils and parents) refers to female members of staff (especially over a cetain age) as Mrs X.

OK, it was always 'Miss' when I went to school and when my kids did.

Either way, I'm not sure anything's going to change for you in the near future regarding people assuming you're a Mrs because you're married.

Unless of course you explicitly tell them.

mondaytosunday · 23/03/2024 00:35

So just correct them. It's convention, they will call you Mrs by default. Just say 'it's Ms thanks'. Boom.

DanielGault · 23/03/2024 00:47

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:15

@WhateverMate Would you be happy with being addressed by any of the four (+) titles available?

I do not wish to be referred to as Mrs anything.

Edited

You can't control others behaviour though can you? This is really quite a minor thing to get so worked up over

HeddaGarbled · 23/03/2024 00:50

I'm literally the only one who isn't a Mrs

There’s your answer. But you knew that.

user1477391263 · 23/03/2024 00:52

I live outside the UK and find the continued usage of “Mrs.” really weird whenever I go back.

I’ve had emails from UK service providers addressing me as “Mrs.” and I personally think it’s rude to try and guess whether someone is married or not by looking at their appearance or family structure.

In most English-speaking contexts outside the UK (in the US, Canada etc. and when English is used as a lingua Franca in non-English-speaking countries, “Ms.” is the default these days and is polite and professional, and is what you use unless someone makes it clear that they prefer another title. Few do, although I’ve sometimes come across older Indian women who still use “Mrs.”as their title when they are speaking in English.

user1477391263 · 23/03/2024 00:53

The last few times I had to email someone in the UK, I actually put my name as “Jane Smith (Ms.)” at the end and it prevented these issues without my needing to correct the person.

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:53

@HeddaGarbled But that doesn't mean I have to be called "Mrs" X too. Not my title!

OP posts:
DanielGault · 23/03/2024 00:55

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:53

@HeddaGarbled But that doesn't mean I have to be called "Mrs" X too. Not my title!

Have you communicated your displeasure to the various offenders?

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:56

@DanielGault To the parents calling me Mrs X? I correct them. Then I often get: "Oh sorry - I thought you were married." 🙈

OP posts:
Growlybear83 · 23/03/2024 00:57

I don't see why you would be annoyed if someone assumed you are a Mrs once - I think the majority of married women still call themselves Mrs. However, if someone used the wrong title for you once they had been made aware that you are a Ms, then I think you have every right to be irritated. I get annoyed if someone who knows I'm a Mrs refers to me as Ms - it's just very rude to get someone's name wrong more than once.

DanielGault · 23/03/2024 01:00

Well I suppose then that's just a case of 'ugh, annoying '. Unless there are other factors at play? It just seems a relatively minor thing to be so annoyed about. I changed my name when I married, but I mostly still get my maiden name. It doesn't offend me.

user1477391263 · 23/03/2024 01:02

ComtesseDeSpair · 23/03/2024 00:11

It was tradition for centuries and it’s only been a handful of decades since it stopped being the norm. It’ll take several more, I think, for the people to whom it was always the norm to (literally) die out, and it become customary to ask rather than assume.

Though the vast majority of people I know and meet automatically assume (correctly) that I neither took DH’s name nor title myself Mrs, so change is definitely underway. When I got married last year not a single one of my colleagues asked whether they should now refer to me with a different name.

Edited

If you are talking about a clear demarcation between “Mrs” and “Miss” and the use of these titles universally, these are actually quite recent innovations.

Titles generally were used only for the middle classes upwards until the late 19th century or thereabouts. You basically got a title if your family was prosperous enough to have servants - as far as I can tell, that was the rule. Everyone else just got their surname or “so-and-so’s wife.” Until the 18th century, “Goodwife” sometimes shortened to “Goody” was sometimes heard for working class married women.

For those who did get titles, “Mrs” (which for a long time was probably pronounced “mistress”) was for all women, regardless of married status, for a long time. “Miss” started to appear for young unmarried upper class women from the late 17th century, but was more of a “manner of speaking” than a specific title, and “Mrs” continued to be the more formal title for these unmarried women. It wasn’t until the late 18th century that a clear pattern of “Miss for unmarried women, Mrs. for married women” emerged; Samuel Johnson, for example, referred to all unmarried women as “Mrs” in the 1780s.

The rule only became absolutely inflexible in about Austen’s time, so really only about 200 years old.

”Ms.” was an alternative shortened form of “Mrs/mistress” from the 17th century onwards. In some parts of the USA, “Miss” and “Mrs” had always been slurred together to form a “Miz” form (watch Gone with the Wind and you’ll see the references to Miz Scarlett, Miz Suellen and all that). 19th century American feminists therefore made the decision to just formally codify this as a real title and use “Ms.” as the short form.

In short, a clear Miss/Mrs division is not especially old, and “Ms.” as a title is actually almost as old.

DramaAlpaca · 23/03/2024 01:03

I can't bring myself to get annoyed about this, but I'm old and have been married for a very long time.

What does annoy me is getting 'Mrs (DH's initial) Alpaca'. My mother is the worst offender, but she's 88 so I pick my battles.

If it bothers you, keep on correcting it every time.

Chatonette · 23/03/2024 01:05

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:56

@DanielGault To the parents calling me Mrs X? I correct them. Then I often get: "Oh sorry - I thought you were married." 🙈

By the time you’ve had this conversation twice with every pupil’s parents (60 times), and they’ve figured it out, the year will be over and you’ll have a new set of parents to repeat with in September. If you want to die on this hill, go for it.

DanielGault · 23/03/2024 01:05

user1477391263 · 23/03/2024 01:02

If you are talking about a clear demarcation between “Mrs” and “Miss” and the use of these titles universally, these are actually quite recent innovations.

Titles generally were used only for the middle classes upwards until the late 19th century or thereabouts. You basically got a title if your family was prosperous enough to have servants - as far as I can tell, that was the rule. Everyone else just got their surname or “so-and-so’s wife.” Until the 18th century, “Goodwife” sometimes shortened to “Goody” was sometimes heard for working class married women.

For those who did get titles, “Mrs” (which for a long time was probably pronounced “mistress”) was for all women, regardless of married status, for a long time. “Miss” started to appear for young unmarried upper class women from the late 17th century, but was more of a “manner of speaking” than a specific title, and “Mrs” continued to be the more formal title for these unmarried women. It wasn’t until the late 18th century that a clear pattern of “Miss for unmarried women, Mrs. for married women” emerged; Samuel Johnson, for example, referred to all unmarried women as “Mrs” in the 1780s.

The rule only became absolutely inflexible in about Austen’s time, so really only about 200 years old.

”Ms.” was an alternative shortened form of “Mrs/mistress” from the 17th century onwards. In some parts of the USA, “Miss” and “Mrs” had always been slurred together to form a “Miz” form (watch Gone with the Wind and you’ll see the references to Miz Scarlett, Miz Suellen and all that). 19th century American feminists therefore made the decision to just formally codify this as a real title and use “Ms.” as the short form.

In short, a clear Miss/Mrs division is not especially old, and “Ms.” as a title is actually almost as old.

I'm sure you're aware though, that the vast majority of the population wouldn't have your knowledge of the subject (thanks though, v interesting!) people in general don't think when it comes to things like this.

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 01:08

@Chatonette Absolutely I will. Because I very strongly believe that titling women by marital status is misogynistic and I won't be a part of that.

OP posts:
user1477391263 · 23/03/2024 01:10

That’s true. I just find it irritating that the UK alone has clung to the Mrs/Ms thing while the rest of the world has moved on and uses Ms unless it’s specifically indicated otherwise.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of older women in the UK are odd about Ms and get offended by it, creating a situation where you are liable to offend people no matter what title you use for them.

I use Ms on all envelopes when addressing cards or letters to friends under 70 (I haven’t heard from them if they prefer another title, but work on the assumption that Ms is neutral and applies to everyone), but my mother and her friends all get “Mrs” on the envelope - I know they’d be weird if I used Ms, as they associate Ms with divorcees or with those dreadful feminists etc. !

DanielGault · 23/03/2024 01:16

user1477391263 · 23/03/2024 01:10

That’s true. I just find it irritating that the UK alone has clung to the Mrs/Ms thing while the rest of the world has moved on and uses Ms unless it’s specifically indicated otherwise.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of older women in the UK are odd about Ms and get offended by it, creating a situation where you are liable to offend people no matter what title you use for them.

I use Ms on all envelopes when addressing cards or letters to friends under 70 (I haven’t heard from them if they prefer another title, but work on the assumption that Ms is neutral and applies to everyone), but my mother and her friends all get “Mrs” on the envelope - I know they’d be weird if I used Ms, as they associate Ms with divorcees or with those dreadful feminists etc. !

Not just the UK tbf. And really I think it's just one of things that's slow moving because lots of people don't bother to correct things like official docs etc. it's annoying, but personally it's way down on the ladder of sexist crap that happens every day.

Chatonette · 23/03/2024 01:17

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 01:08

@Chatonette Absolutely I will. Because I very strongly believe that titling women by marital status is misogynistic and I won't be a part of that.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I’m just saying that you are giving the impression that this is really getting to you, and in your profession, the ‘default’ is not Ms. You should definitely go by whatever name you choose, but to get this upset about it may affect your serenity.

Mama2many73 · 23/03/2024 01:23

If in school not probably wouldn't bother me (ex teacher)Especially as some people will just make the assumption but recently I completed an assessment for ds and i referred to myself as married and gave my name as "name Mama2many73".
I was quite annoyed when the whole report came back as Ms mama2many73, especially
as there was nothing to support that assumption.

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 01:24

@Mama2many73 Did you put your title as Mrs?

OP posts:
InWalksBarberalla · 23/03/2024 01:31

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 00:56

@DanielGault To the parents calling me Mrs X? I correct them. Then I often get: "Oh sorry - I thought you were married." 🙈

With parents do you not say to use your first name anyway? We've always just been asked by teachers after the initial greeting to swap to first names, even when the students were still using titles.

LorlieS · 23/03/2024 01:35

@InWalksBarberalla No; we would expect both pupils and parents not to refer to us by our first names.

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InWalksBarberalla · 23/03/2024 01:49

Intereting there are still plenty of schools around here that expect students to use titles and last names (also many that just use first names nowaday) but I don't think any expect parents to use titles in direct correspondence and discussion between adults.
Hence title use is so rare generally- just seems a few schools are hanging on to it.