Children with ASD / ADHD going to mainstream school.

[BabbaJoe]

What has been your experience of your ‘High-Functioning’ ASD / ADHD child going to mainstream secondary school? My DS is in Year 5 and very academically able. He is happy at his mainstream primary, but frankly he is hopeless socially. They struggle with social cues, have no friends, and act very silly and immature. Whilst he is accepted by his peers, he has no friends, and has been called weird / freak in the past 😔

We have been told that he will not qualify for an EHCP as he is very intelligent and ahead academically, and there are no real reasons to warrant it as he is quite happy at school.

My real concern is secondary school, as that’s when I hear time and time again that ASD / ADHD kids fall apart.

I have three options:

• Mainstream Secondary
• Private School
• Private School that specialises in students with high-functioning ASD.

We can afford the private options, but it will mean cutting back and financial sacrifices.

Those who have been in my position, what would you do, and how did your children cope in mainstream?

I can see why you say this. A friend of mine sent her children with autism to a private secondary. It was totally unsuitable, they said lots of things but didn’t really do much. She switched them to the local state comprehensive and it was way better, actually tried to meet their needs and support them

"They said lots of things but didn't do much"- was exactly our experience. I don't want to put OP off specialist provision or even private school as some really are amazing, but in our experience it was woeful and state offers far more protection for the student and parent when things go wrong.

Not read the whole threat yet, but can anyone name any specialist private schools that work for academic ASD kids?

@StainlessSeal What part of the country are you in? We are in the South East, near London.

We're in south london

@StainlessSeal Ah I am not sure about South London. The schools we are considering are all approx. An hour away from London, so not sure you’d want your DC to travel that far?

An EHCP isn't about academic achievement.

Its about potential and ability to cope with the environment.

Councils WILL try and resist applications that fit into the category for this reason but this isn't inline with the purpose and obligations for an EHCP are for.

They are about the physical, emotional and social development and health needs of children. NOT their academic ability.

What you need to demostrate is that their issues are holding them back in some way - not prove their academic ability is below average.

So you could have a child, who is achieving targets but there is a bit gap between their verbal reasoning and expression and their academic achievement. Or that they are socially struggling in a way thats noticable even though their academic achievement is good.

DS is currently going through assessment. We've been told that it is unusual for kids who are achieving targets but there is a clear disconnect going on and some of his behaviours are unusual. School are being supportive and agree there is an issue but I am expecting a rejection - we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

As much as anything its about getting 'reasonable adjustments' as an option come high school rather than having to deal with issues then. We aren't expecting funding. Just a formal diagnosis. Ultimately DS will have to cope in the real world and its about stepping stone to that which are positive rather than an all round shit experience.

Don't be misled into thinking that EHCNAs are unsuccessful because they aren't needed. It's purely a monetary decision.

"roughly 90%-95% of families are successful when they appeal to SENDIST against EHCNA refusal decisions"

From Special Needs Jungle
SNJ foi

@BabbaJoe no, but we would consider moving, to be honest. Happy for you to DM the schools of that's better?

DD's girl seconday with co-ed 6th form is around that size. I think size was the issue with primary, after 7 years with 60 per year, they just were fed up with each other.

A large school also meant good choices in GCSE and A-Level, good provisions for STEM, trips and extra curricular activities outside sport and music. The SEN department was also a good size.

We have a private school nearby which is big on pastoral care, I know of several students on the spectrum or who struggled in large state secondaries for a variety of reasons. But the list of GCSE options was tiny and academic children would leave as they weren't challenged enough.
Obviously that's just one school but it shows that all schools are different and not every school fits every child, private or not.

My son is not ASD but seems to have a particular affinity for kids who are! He attends fantasy (Dungeons and Dragons) club and a lot of the kids who go are ASD.

Schools will 100% do their best to accommodate - access to a quiet space, own rooms for assessments, leaving classrooms earlier to avoid busy corridors, sitting in a certain place in the classroom.

i would go for a tour during the normal running of a normal school day and see what your child thinks of it. There is a huge spectrum of what ASD students can cope with.

i would worry less about finding friends/ a group. There are SO MANY kids at secondary. I don’t think my son had a single person he would call a ‘friend’ at primary - now he is in year 9 he has lots. That’s a really big bonus for quirky kids moving on to secondary - there will 100% be people like them - might take a while to find them but they are there!

See I have found from my current touring experience that when you actually look into schools' ability to accommodate, it's all on their terms rather than what suits the child.
I.e Access to a quiet space - yes but must be booked. Or it's only available on these days and times. Or only when there's a member of staff.

Variable and very dependent on the child. I work in a mainstream secondary. I have a delightful group of 7 ASD boys who meet in my classroom to chat and get in the zone before school starts....

....and I also teach a few school refusers who are ASD- and it's just been a disaster for them.

In general the other kids are very clued up- which wasn't the case in the past. I have a few boys who just openly tell everyone they're ASD and explain how they want to be treated. I also have a child (who could not be described as high functioning) who gets very distressed by the bells, and needs warnings about them sent to his laptop. One time he became quite anxious during my lesson, and a couple of girls ran over to his laptop to get up a map for him to look at, because motorway intersections on Google earth calm him down. Not one child in that large Year 10 class thought there was anything odd about that.

ASD, far more than anything else, seems to be so personal. I couldn't make generalisations about it.

This is not the case at my school.

The quiet area is available at all times.

My son started high school in august - Scotland so Is 12 has diagnosis of asd/adhd masked and ‘coped’ until after October holidays and it’s just gone downhill from there. He goes, but will not speak to anyone or go anywhere except the Sen base. Even there he just sits there and only one teacher can speak to him - his own asn teacher. He has gone awol many times and it’s a massive headache he’s getting no education and I feel he’s unsafe. His needs are not being met but school aren’t doing a thing. His asn teacher is trying with the resources he has but says he isn’t asd enough for specialist provision. It’s so frustrating, he’s clever and able but just finds school so difficult, lots of demand avoidance too. Am exhausted with it all and I’m sure he is too.

We are in a very similar position with our DC. I've carried out a fairly extensive search and I don't think there really are any specialist private school suitable for high functioning ASD. Certainly not in our area. They are all focused on providing for children with learning difficulties. What we do have locally is some private schools that clearly have a large ASD cohort and are more sympathetic towards accepting students on the spectrum. Many private schools I have approached do not want to know when I've mentioned DC's diagnosis

That’s not across the board at all.

ds school has a dedicated learning support area which is staffed all day. Some pupils will be in there for all lessons, some for certain lessons and interventions. Others will go in when they need to escape the classroom for whatever reason.

Mainstream was the absolute making for my DD. great support and opportunities. i suspect our experience is rare however

I'm autistic and had the secondary school breakdown common with us. It was hell. I have made friends easily as an adult with other neurodiverse people and if I could have had some others like me in school I think I would have been fine.

If I were in your position I would try the state school because 'high functioning' academically able SEN kids are being forced into mainstream he may actually have a cohort there. But if he struggles go for the private absolutely amd tell him this is an option and do it as soon as he asks rather than wait till he breaks

I also have an autistic 8year old same profile academically very able but socially she's starting to struggle. I can't afford private school so I am considering home education and putting her back in for her GCSEs. Hopefully by then schools will be better equipped for kids like her

Dear OP,
I have read the full thread but have read your posts so please forgive me if I repeat what has already been said. My DD does not have any additional learning needs but has had a number of friends who have throughout her schooling (coming to the end of year 13 now) she also has needed support for other access needs due to physical impairment. What I have found through my own experience and those of her friend's parents is that it is incredibly dependent on the individual school. There are some state secondaries that are inclusive, responsive, focused on ensuring all children are able to access learning and the school experience. Then there are those that are not either because of a lack of will or expertise.

When we were looking for my DD secondary we really looked for what would suit HER. One of the ones we went to look at (which was the highest performing and had the best ‘reputation’ in the area) started with the headmaster proudly proclaiming “you won’t find any inclusion unit here!”. At that point it came straight off my list, not because my DD would need an ‘inclusion unit’ but because I didn’t want her to go to a school where it was felt to be OK to leave anyone behind. The one we eventually chose actually had the local autism unit embedded within it. It was a fantastic school, friendly and welcoming and when my DD needed some adjustments due to her physical impairment they did everything they could to be flexible and support her. Children accessed the specialist unit, some full time, some part time and one of DD’s friends was able to access the mainstream school full time after the first couple of years (but with support available if needed). The presence of the unit also benefited those children who had additional needs (ASD/ADHD) but whose needs were not felt to require the specialist provision because there was knowledge and expertise in the school staff and an ethos of inclusion.

Interestingly, DD’s sixth form is the school we originally discounted. A change in leadership has made an enormous difference there and now when DD or one of her friends has needed support or adjustments it has been forthcoming.

What I am trying to say in a really roundabout way is, as you have a bit of time before your DS moves start really looking at all your local options. Look at them in terms of what would suit your DS best, ask them how they support inclusivity, do they support those children with social support needs?

I would also echo others in terms of applying for the EHCP. Even if you are not successful at this stage you will have knowledge and experience of the system if you need to reapply when your DS is in secondary.

Outcomes very much depend on the school (and also if your child is able to cope with the sensory overload and social demands of an enormous school). Ultimately though, for children for whom the environment itself isn't totally overwhelming, if the school is prepared to listen to parents, to be proactive, compassionate, and ensure knowledge of SEN is up to date and to communicate agreed support and interventions effectively with its staff, it can work really well.

Both my kids are dual diagnosed ASD/ADHD. DS, who on the surface appears more high need than DD, went to a secondary where the attitude was very much 'what the child needs they get' and had a level of support that is not usually provided without an EHCP (which he did not have). School did a stellar job, and he got 11 excellent GCSEs and 3 good A levels there and is now at his first choice university and thriving. I am so, so grateful to the entire school community for what they did for my child (and embarrassingly cried on the head with gratitude at his final prize giving).

DD, who really should have been able to cope in mainstream, was left absolutely broken by her time at a different school (both went to single sex secondaries so she couldn't follow her brother). Her needs were discounted because she is academically able and was still achieving at the top of her year group. They treated her anxiety (so severe it led to selective mutism) and the migraines caused by a combination of her visual stress and glaring screens as her being 'awkward' and trying to avoid lessons despite the fact that her behaviour record was completely unblemished and she was studying so hard we couldn't get her to leave the house outside school. They ignored reports from their own SALT, didn't listen when they were told she was struggling because she only melted down at home, didn't communicate interventions to all staff (for example she had homework taken away as she was over -studying to the detriment of her health but they didn't tell the teachers so she would then get told off for not handing it in) and ultimately caused her an enormous mental health crisis that she is still recovering from. She went into that school a happy, bright kid who was desperate to learn and came out of it an absolute shell, angry, selective mute, self harming, with an eating disorder, a tic disorder and OCD.

She is now at a small specialist provision with an EHCP, has high grades at GCSE and is studying A levels 2 years early.

So it can work, if you are lucky enough to find a school where the support and knowledge is there, and crucially if you find a school that takes your knowledge of your own child and their needs seriously. However, the toll it takes when it doesn't is enormous.

It is worth finding local support groups for parents of ND kids so that you can chat to people and get their experiences of local schools before making any decisions, but just be aware that things could change dramatically (either for better or worse) within a school in the time before he is ready for secondary.

Would you be able to share which private secondary you are referring to, please?

Thank you so much for your clear specifications. I have initiated a ln EHcP for my son, now Y5, because I really dread the idea of him being in any mainstream secondary without support. He has a double diagnosis of ADHD and ASD, but, the school is telling me he is improving a lot!! Yes, he is starting to mature a bit, but he is so much into his own world.. I fear he could become a target for other kids

Problem is OP one kid with ASD is not the same as another kid with ASD.

Anyway’s I have one AuDHD he’s in state grammar school which is absolutely where he belongs because he’s incredibly bright (if a little disorganised!) he’s in year 11, set to get all 7,8 and 9’s in his exams.

Then I have 2 ASD, who are mainstream comprehensive, the 14 year old has thrived from the start, he found his gang pretty quickly and has been really happy, year 9 now, gets into the odd scrape (because of his lack of understanding why shouting something like Heil Hitler in the playground would be wrong and offensive-yes he did this, yes he got into trouble at school, yes he also got into trouble at home).
ASD number two is 11 and year 7, the first 3 months were hell. He is the polar opposite of his brother and socially incredibly awkward. But just after Christmas he seemed to find his tribe and is now happy.

Remember your kid might just find the other quirky kids and be perfectly happy in mainstream.