Page 21 | Jesus held on the cross with nails in his hands

TaFox · 2024-03-20T21:43:37+00:00

DD5 is in year 1 and has been learning about Jesus at school. Great stuff in the spirit of Easter. The RE teacher told the class how Jesus was NAILED to the cross. This is quite graphic for a little girl who believes that the Easter bunny will leave eggs in our garden. Should I tell school that this is too much info for little ears?

DailyEnergyCrisis · 21/03/2024 12:22

This upset DD too when she was 6. She’s 8 now and thankfully unscarred by it but I did tell her to close her ears in RE whenever she wanted to.

Arrestedmanevolence · 21/03/2024 12:24

Just let her watch life of Brian if she's confused

DaBlackCatsAreDaBestCats · 21/03/2024 12:24

LoreleiG · 21/03/2024 12:00

No, it's when I decided I disagreed with indoctrinating children.

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How is a bible story “indoctrinating”? Choose to believe it or not. Surely that’s what religion is about: faith. You don’t have to share a certain faith but why should anything distasteful be glossed over or removed because little Timmy might not like it

Jaboody · 21/03/2024 12:30

Would you prefer she was shown The Life of Brian?

HoppingPavlova · 21/03/2024 12:31

Something I've wondered ever since I learned about the guillotine. Once the head is removed from the body, can the head still talk? I don't know if it was something I watched in a programme like Horrible Histories and a head was talking from the basket but as the brain is in the head, and there would be blood in the cranial cavity (at least for a very short time) could the head still talk

Theoretically, yes. Without a fresh blood supply brains can survive for a period of time. Supposedly with humans it’s really quick, either 5 or 15 seconds from memory, whereas with some other animals where the brain dies not refresh with blood as often it can be a lot longer, I think reptiles are longest at maybe 30mins odd (may be a bit off as going by memory from when I learnt this a long time ago). However, whether 5 or 15 seconds, it’s actually a really long time as anyone who has been in a car accident or certain traumatic events will tell you as many experience time ‘slowing down’ incredibly, it’s the way the brain processes in these situations. What a head could actually do though would depend on the mechanical injury and how/whether that affected relevant muscles and nerves. Speech would be unlikely as you require a voice box and its connection to your head which no longer exists, but eye muscles and certain other facial muscles would likely work for that short period of time.

I hear a chicken survived for over a year once it’s head was taken off. Mind you this was on Richard Osmans Game show

That’s true but it’s not clean cut (pun). Can’t recall the specifics but there was definitely a blood clot that was somehow relevant, I think it was a partial beheading maybe (where the head could ‘flip off’ but wasn’t completely disconnected maybe), and where it was cut meant the brain stem was unaffected. Something like that.

ThreeLocusts · 21/03/2024 12:33

TediousMansplainer · 21/03/2024 12:08

The only bible story that really scared me as a small child, and gave me nightmares, is the one where God tells a man to kill his own son with a knife and he goes along with it (and we were taught that he was correct to do so). The fact that God told him at the last moment not to do it was not much consolation to me at the time.

Yes I remember responding to that one, too. Didn't scare me luckily, but made me wonder if god was such a great guy really...

FredericC · 21/03/2024 12:34

YANBU

I honestly think it's pretty awful that they would tell such tiny kids such graphic stories of abuse/harassment. The fact it's part of a religious story is neither here nor there, not everyone believes in religion. Unless you've signed her up to a religious school in which case, I would imagine that you knew what to expect.

RobertaFirmino · 21/03/2024 12:34

HoppingPavlova · 21/03/2024 12:10

We all learnt this as small children - it's fine. The whole point is that Jesus had to die**

Exactly. And not just ‘die’ but suffer immensely while he died. That’s the point.

Whether you are a Christian, Agnostic, Atheist or any other religion, it’s an historical fact that a dude named Jesus (translated over the ages) did exist and wandered around that area and was crucified. Pretty much everything else is up for debate, from the details of his conception, to certain acts he may have undertaken that are now termed miracles, who his ‘father’ was in an ongoing sense, whether his ‘father’ is ‘real’, what happened after he died etc, but irrespective, the fact is he was a real person who was crucified which involved torture. To pretend otherwise or make out to kids he was some dude who died peacefully while being held by some form of velcro to a cross is really odd.

I agree. It's bloody obvious that the sick started to feel better once someone paid them a bit of attention and made sure they were fed. That isn't a miracle, it's just what happens when you are kind.

stillplentyofjunkinthetrunk · 21/03/2024 12:34

I'm not sure it will help but the point of crucifixion was that it was a very slow and painful death. As a child I was told that this was why the soldier stabbed him with a spear to cut his suffering short. It helped me at the time.

kkloo · 21/03/2024 12:40

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 20/03/2024 22:08

I'm Catholic and my three have recently made their first Holy Communion. The littlest can tell you that Christ suffered a scourging, a bloody sweat, a crown of thorns and was nailed to the cross. It was a highly unpleasant experience where Christ suffered for our sins. So I'm not quite sure how it can be taught in any other way or it entirely mitigates the message.

For what it's worth, no one in the First Holy Communion class seems very perturbed or disturbed by it all.

It's far more unpleasant that little kids are told that Jesus died for our sins, and that we're all sinners and that they have to tell the priest their confessions 😷

ExpressCheckout · 21/03/2024 12:42

It's fine, OP, honestly.

Children process this kind of information differently to adults; it was told to them as a human story, by a teacher, to help them learn about the world.

Like many others, I was taught this from an early age, and I'm not traumatized by it. Plus as others point out, these images are everywhere in art etc.

Obviously, when you're older, you realise how horrific this must have been for him, so religious or not this is still an important religious story to understand.

DrJoanAllenby · 21/03/2024 12:43

Perhaps explain to your daughter that nowadays they would be kinder and use 'No more nails'!

🙄🙄🙄

HoppingPavlova · 21/03/2024 12:45

Am I alone in hoping that OP’s child’s next RE class covers Sodom and Gomorrah 🤣🤣🤣

EverybodyIsFantastic · 21/03/2024 12:46

kkloo · 21/03/2024 12:40

It's far more unpleasant that little kids are told that Jesus died for our sins, and that we're all sinners and that they have to tell the priest their confessions 😷

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I’m a contented atheist who had a devoutly Catholic upbringing and education, which left me unscathed but with a very trenchant attitude to women’s bodily autonomy, the resolution to choose secular schools for my child, and a commitment to restorative justice and financial compensation for the victims of clerical sexual abuse

The only thing that really enraged me during the two years he was at a C of E village school for lack of other options was when the new vicar turned out to be a diehard evangelical Biblical literalist. Fortunately my then seven year old and his staunchly skeptical classmates were not convinced. I couldn’t believe than a man in his late 30s with teenage children and at least two degrees could believe anything of the kind.

WitsEnd10 · 21/03/2024 12:48

Alconleigh · 20/03/2024 22:24

You've never been in a church? Really?

What’s so unbelievable about that? I’d never been in a church until a few years ago when a friend had their wedding in one, I’m almost 40.

Moonmelodies · 21/03/2024 12:51

HoppingPavlova · 21/03/2024 12:10

We all learnt this as small children - it's fine. The whole point is that Jesus had to die**

Exactly. And not just ‘die’ but suffer immensely while he died. That’s the point.

Whether you are a Christian, Agnostic, Atheist or any other religion, it’s an historical fact that a dude named Jesus (translated over the ages) did exist and wandered around that area and was crucified. Pretty much everything else is up for debate, from the details of his conception, to certain acts he may have undertaken that are now termed miracles, who his ‘father’ was in an ongoing sense, whether his ‘father’ is ‘real’, what happened after he died etc, but irrespective, the fact is he was a real person who was crucified which involved torture. To pretend otherwise or make out to kids he was some dude who died peacefully while being held by some form of velcro to a cross is really odd.

It is very much not a "historical fact" - there are no contemporary records, and only 'scholars' who accept a few vague letters written decades after the event believe it to be true.

IsthisthereallifeIsthisjustfantasy · 21/03/2024 12:52

Mischance · 21/03/2024 12:08

It is about being age-appropriate. Small children do not need to be subjected to the barbarism.

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I'm fascinated by some of the language on this thread. A couple of posters have described crucifixion as "barbaric"/"barbarism".

Just interesting since of course Jesus was crucified by the Romans, who very much identified as explicitly not Barbarians!

thepastinsidethepresent · 21/03/2024 12:53

At my school that was accompanied by a very graphic explanation of what crucifixion did to the body, BUT that was at secondary school. Up until then I think I just assumed he was tied to the cross and died of starvation.

YankSplaining · 21/03/2024 12:55

Devonbabs · 21/03/2024 07:41

Maybe take your child into a church, read the Easter story together and discuss it in any way you like.

I’m surprised your daughter has not seen a crucifix before. Everyone in the West needs a good education in Christianity much of western history and art is very closely intertwined with it.

Re: history and art: oh God, yes, and add literature to that as well. I graduated from a pretty well-known American college, and it was truly dismal how many people didn’t recognize basic Biblical allusions. The poor English literature professors were like, “Okay, in this chapter, someone falls from grace in a garden. Now, what Biblical story is this referring to?” Silence. I always had to raise my hand because I went to Catholic school. Afterwards, people would come up to me and be impressed that I knew stuff you’d find in a 64-page beginning children’s Bible.

Everybody needs a basic working knowledge of the Bible and Greek mythology if they want to understand western art and literature.

Parker231 · 21/03/2024 13:05

kkloo · 21/03/2024 12:40

It's far more unpleasant that little kids are told that Jesus died for our sins, and that we're all sinners and that they have to tell the priest their confessions 😷

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I’d be furious if anyone told my DC’s that they are sinners!

Mischance · 21/03/2024 13:05

Everybody needs a basic working knowledge of the Bible and Greek mythology if they want to understand western art and literature.

I agree. But small chidlren do not need to be subjected to details of crucifixion.

Mischance · 21/03/2024 13:06

*I'm fascinated by some of the language on this thread. A couple of posters have described crucifixion as "barbaric"/"barbarism".

Just interesting since of course Jesus was crucified by the Romans, who very much identified as explicitly not Barbarians!*

Barbaric has a general meaning as a n adjective - as I am sure you know!

EverybodyIsFantastic · 21/03/2024 13:07

YankSplaining · 21/03/2024 12:55

Re: history and art: oh God, yes, and add literature to that as well. I graduated from a pretty well-known American college, and it was truly dismal how many people didn’t recognize basic Biblical allusions. The poor English literature professors were like, “Okay, in this chapter, someone falls from grace in a garden. Now, what Biblical story is this referring to?” Silence. I always had to raise my hand because I went to Catholic school. Afterwards, people would come up to me and be impressed that I knew stuff you’d find in a 64-page beginning children’s Bible.

Everybody needs a basic working knowledge of the Bible and Greek mythology if they want to understand western art and literature.

Show quote history

An entire seminar group of my undergraduates didn’t know what the Annunciation was recently, and colleagues teaching Milton have to do a lot more basic prep work now…

TheGreenManalishiWithTheTwoProngedCrown · 21/03/2024 13:15

Everybody needs a basic working knowledge of the Bible and Greek mythology if they want to understand western art and literature.

I agree. But small chidlren do not need to be subjected to details of crucifixion.

You don't agree, then. You either learn about the Bible and Greek myths or you don't. A sanitised version of either doesn't make any sense and doesn't help you understand art/literature/music.

Laikalaika · 21/03/2024 13:19

The amount of people claiming that Jesus never existed is just unbelievable.

Dawkins once glibly claimed he probably didn't exist, and he was so embarrassed that he had to backtrack and affirm he "probably" did exist.

No credible historian in the world thinks he didn't exist.