To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

You only have to read on here how bad it is but the moment a teacher - or any school staff - start to discuss it they are told they are whinging and to leave if they don't like it.

I've quit. 24 years and it breaks my heart but it was me or the job.

I think change is desperately needed at home, before children get to school age. Nowadays, parents seem to expect schools to parent as well as educate.

I keep reading on here about the horrible things teachers have to put up with. It sounds awful and I don't think I realised how bad it was.

How old were these children? Do the parents get involved and what do they say? I'd be so embarrassed if my daughters did something like this.

• Because too many parents leave parenting to the schools (potty training/behaviour etc)
• lack of respect to teachers
• lack of support and early intervention for SEN children
• lack of support from SLT

Yes the education system needs fundamental reform but so does the social contract between parents and schools. I repeatedly say parents need to parent by which I mean take responsibility for the behaviour of their DC and model a positive attitude towards education and teachers. Rather than kick up a fuss when their precious DC get told off in school, listen to the reasons why and don't believe everything their DC tell them. Have consequences at home for poor behaviour etc.

Children's centres - virtually gone
Surestart - gone
Children's Services early intervention for children and families - gone (unless a pretty high risk already).

and now here we are.

Im sorry you’ve been hurt, OP.

Nothing will change in school until things change at home. So many excuses are made for children’s poor behaviour, to excuse feckless parents from raising their children.

There are countless threads here about teachers being hurt in school, childminders and caregivers hurt in childcare settings.

Each one is inundated with parents telling you how good you have it versus how hard they have it and a million excuses for why you should be hit and just get on with it.

I often wonder what will become of these children when they find themselves in places or situations where no-one is willing to stand by and let them hurt them.

Teachers have my sympathies because I wouldn’t enter the profession for all the tea in China ☹️.

This in spades

There was no sure start or children's centres in the 80s and early 90s and behaviour wasn't out of control then though?

State or private?

@Ariona

Private.

Yet another thread about this

Nothing changes

I’ve worked in schools there are so many children with undiagnosed SEN that can’t even get an assessment and there’s lack of staff to support them, it’s awful.

My DS start’s school in September. I’m so apprehensive about it due to these sorts of issues.

Teachers and PSAs were being kicked, hit, verbally abused etc at our school but the HT didn't do anything apart from tell them it was part and parcel of the job nowadays.
Suddenly that attitude changed when she was hit so hard she had to go to A and E.

Absolutely agree. I'm a nursery teacher and this year is the worst by far. Out of 20, 5 seem to have SEN but I'd say in most cases it's parenting. No expectations of what a 3 year old should be able to do, not toilet trained, can't follow a simple instruction (e.g. take your coat off), can't feed themselves, rip books, paint on the walls, can't play. We have 4 that can communicate to a somewhat appropriate level in English although 14 were born here. Over half can't communicate effectively in any language.
We are inner city and near a university. We take from a wide cross section of society and it's seems to be a running theme whether they are a low income family or a child from an oversees family paying a pretty penny to attend uni here.
We aren't doing too badly with assaults at the minute but I remember having to physically restrain a 4 year old while 8 months pregnant and was expected to get in with it.
This year I rang a dad to collect a child as he had hit staff twice and also another child. Dad sneered at us and questioned why we 'couldn't deal with a little 3 year old, it's your job isn't it '.

I've gone zero tolerance in nursery as they don't legally have to attend. You hit staff and you're going home. You hit a child (more than a tussle over a toy) and you're out. I feel it's more the parents that need to understand we are not accepting it

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we need some kind of public inquiry as to why the behaviour and development of children have gone so badly wrong over only the last 10 years or so, with the last 5 or so years seeing the most frightening acceleration.

Throwing money at support services will help but not solve the root of the issue.

I’ll be shouted down but I’m willing to bet in 10+ years posters on here will be asking why the heck everyone ignore the elephant in the room for so long.

We have a boy going to a top RG uni and a child that suddenly out of the blue has got violent. I have asked the gp for a urgent referal to camhs, gp said school have to apply, school talked to camhs, didn't invite me, I got no chance to imput into that meeting and camhs signposted to the NAS website.

So there's one issue off the bat. Luckily I have money so I pay the £400 to talk to a private psychiatrist. But even if you act fast on shitty behaviour ( only seen in school as its anxiety due to ASD overload) you get fobbed off.

Only the children of the rich can get the sen help they need

That Dad probably "dealt with" a 3 year old by hitting them .... Surely he didn't expect you to do that?

@wubwubwub I very much doubt the dad did anything to discipline the child in any way whatsoever.

@Pigriver

That seems like the right way to deal with it. The zero tolerance, the proactive : you cannot do that or there will be a consequence. There are no clear boundaries, no rules and I think the children desperately need this. Often toys are not played with - they are used as weapons and there seems to be a battle for dominance.

I’m sure it’s had a negative effect but I honestly don’t think it accounts for the severity and prevalence of what’s going on.

Think about it, how many non verbal children did you know growing up in the 90s/2000s and how many do you know now? I would be really interested to hear answers from other people.

. I'm a nursery teacher and this year is the worst by far. Out of 20, 5 seem to have SEN but I'd say in most cases it's parenting. No expectations of what a 3 year old should be able to do, not toilet trained, can't follow a simple instruction (e.g. take your coat off), can't feed themselves, rip books, paint on the walls, can't play. We have 4 that can communicate to a somewhat appropriate level in English although 14 were born here. Over half can't communicate effectively in any language.

I could have written this. 😔 Our nursery children are a world apart compared to what we were dealing with just a few short years ago. Forget teaching them to zip up a coat or write their name, most of our current nursery children can't put their coats on or hold a pencil. They're nowhere near ready to start school in September. But what makes it worse is so many of the parents are in denial. They have such low expectations for their children, and constantly argue that they're too young to do ask we as, and we expect too much from them. 😔

I'm support staff in a school and you're completely right. Some people think because we get school hols off we've got it easy.

It's the hardest most stressful job I've ever done. Some parents refuse to parent and that's one of main issues in schools. Something has to change that's for sure.

Sure start centres etc were, I think, a Blair thing, so pretty recent. All this mental health issues, etc also seems to be recent thing.

I don't recall any significant problems like we experience now back in the 80s and 90s.

Something else must be going on. I'd suggest it's permissive parenting and we're now in the second and third generations of people who've simply never been told "no" and passing their sense of entitlements off to their children and grandchildren.

Parents need to parent and need to take responsibility for their children rather than whinging about lack of support services etc. How about teaching that actions have consequences, how about teaching about respect for authority etc? It ALL begins at home and that's where it's going badly wrong. Too many parents wanting to be their sprog's "best friend" instead of being a parent, just because it's easier to blame someone else and let other people deal with the fallout.

Our LA said that no children were to be excluded unless a weapon was involved. Hmm a fist, feet, teeth, a pencil, a chair could all be considered a weapon if used as such.

With our previous HT we filled in a violent incident form every time something happened. When a teacher enquired what was happening, it turned out he wasn't sending the forms to the council because he didn't it to look like his school had issues.

The thing I've really noticed in the past few years is the problems with speech. In a class of 18 5yo there were 5 whose speech was unintelligible. I think some of the parents thought it was up to the school to teach them to speak.