To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

I agree. DD came home yesterday asking if she could have a pair of noise cancelling headphones to be like the other children at school. This seems very recent too - I don’t remember any children at school having sensory meltdowns or sitting with their hands over their ears. The profile of special needs has really changed from children with Downs or cerebral palsy (for example) to almost exclusively autism, ADHD or both. I’m always surprised to hear about a child with SEN where the diagnosis isn’t ASD/ADHD.

I think blaming families where both parents work is poor. We both work FT and have since both daughters were babies. We do it because we both have careers which don't have to stop the moment you have kids; you just make an extra effort. Both of my daughters are polite, well behaved children and at parents evening they both receive praise for their behaviour. Perhaps it's how you discipline them when you're at home - not how much time you spend at home.

And their grandparents have all died, with no aunts or uncles either - so according to some posters, my children ought to be horrendous!

Same, I recall in my middle school there was one none verbal girl and one disruptive kid, (she had the odd outburst). That was it, rest of us just got on with the lesson. I was scared of my teacher ringing my parents. If I got a detention I think I would have left home to avoid the wrath.

This last sentence made me laugh because I felt exactly the same - I couldn't have coped with the shame!

I wonder if some of this is a consequence of covid lock downs?

The quality of adult caregiver/baby and adult caregiver/toddler interactions have been hugely impacted by adults (and toddlers) use of screens. It's such a crucial time and too many people aren't aware that the interactions (babbling, repetition, simple games, mirroring facial expressions, modelling behaviours, labelling feelings) that occur in this time are so so crucial and grounded in interactions between baby/toddler and adult. When I see toddler in pushchairs with tablets it slightly kills me.
The US has guidance about screen times (that I'm sure most ignore) but tablet use in under 5's is so normalised now.
https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Children-And-Watching-TV-054.aspx#:~:text=Between%2018%20and%2024%20months,limit%20activities%20that%20include%20screens.

Seeing lots of comments implying that a lack of stay at home mothers is the cause of these issues. But all of the children I know with terrible behavior come from homes with a sahm. I don't think it's about a loss of a stay at home parent but more how much both parents actively engage with children when they are home together. Children also seem less likely to play with other children outside of school hours. Mainly though, I think too much screen time and domestic violence, are the biggest contributors.

I work in a primary school within KS2 (7-11 yr olds) and I'm absolutely exhausted, mentally and physically, so I'm looking at getting out too.

Children are being failed by the system, by parents, by Govt (lack of funding).

Children with SEN and MH needs need support but there isn't enough to go round so parents are having to fight for it, with that fight taking many months. Meanwhile the child continues to suffer, as do their class mates. It's bad enough being an adult on the receiving end of physical and verbal abuse - imagine being a child witnessing it daily!

The way some students behave and treat teachers, peers and the school resources is pretty dreadful. Children draw on books and tables. They drop their litter on the classroom floor. They steal equipment. They answer back and are often disrespectful. They talk over the teacher when they are teaching. They are late. They don't bother about their homework etc etc. It is a really dispiriting job. Then throw in kids who are violent or verbally aggressive. Add in unsupportive or overwhelmed leadership teams. Add in parents who cannot or will not discipline their kids or support the school.

It doesn't make for a pleasant environment where learning is the focus.

I spent thousands of hours in meetings with many different professions regarding SEN children. No matter who was involved, no matter how much money was spent, no matter what new plans were put in place for the majority of those children, nothing worked. The only course of action that was ever going to be of any help was to get the child a new parent ! I heard every excuse under the sun as to why a bone idle parent can't parent. A useless parent rarely changes.
So much money and resources were wasted when they were desperately needed for children who had SEN and not just god awful parents.
Our education is close to breaking but that isn't the biggest problem. The biggest problem is our pathetic parents.

Absolutely but the issues are multifaceted.

Bad parenting? Maybe, I'm not convinced this is any more rife than before personally.

Sen on the increase? Quite possibly, it's better recognised now although not necessarily quickly diagnosed. people have children later in life, it's hard to get support though, in and out of school

Parents both need to work. There's not one at home to do pick up, chat through the day, facilitate play dates, help with reading etc

Funding - a huge issue! Less TAs = less support therefore issues escalate. Schools can't access services easily like speech and language etc.

Lack of playtime - this is so important. When I was at school we had two playtimes and lunch all through primary. This doesn't seem to happen anymore.

Too academic focused - music, art, cooking etc in primary all seems to have dipped. Year 6s are hot housed through SATs.

Covid - we will be seeing children in reception now who would have been 1/2 during covid so won't have had the same amount of social learning due to us being bubbled, which may well impact their social and play skills.

Things can only stretch so far. Parenting used to be done by the parents rather than nurseries, schools and afterschool clubs. Parents can no longer afford to bring up their own children. The parents suffer, the children suffer. We have less and less time, less and less money. Those with helpful grandparents have a significant advantage. Less time means less social interaction, many of us live quite reclusive lives.
A completely separate point I just wanted to relay my experience. In my last job (20 yrs) I visited thousands of families in all sorts of social groups and situations. In the last 10 years, what became more prevalent and obvious was the open smoking of marijuana at home.To the point where you could smell it outside the front door - it permeated the whole house. What was happening to the brains of the children who lived in these houses? In some areas 10-15% of the children must have been affected. It isn’t just deprived areas either, I live in a village and next door, professional people, are bringing up their children in a house where they smoke marijuana .
Im not saying this is causing the problems mentioned but I have always been surprised that this is something that is so prevalent but not really talked about.

Ineffective and ill judged behaviour policies from on high make teachers piggy in the middle between their SLT and parents. Don't follow the system: SLT on your back. Potential disciplinary action. Do follow it: parents belligerent and refusing to back you.

It's exhausting, constantly trying to just do your job, teach the kids so they pass their quals, so you keep the performance of the department up,.....trying to stay sane, keep things fun, do your job which never ends and comes home and still have some sort of energy for your own family.

After 20 years I quit. I was sick of it. Being answered back to, being unsupported, trying to do my best against the tide. I couldn't do another 25yrs to retirement.

I wonder how all these kids will cope as adults. There were kids I went to school with in the 70s that I would guess had SEN from their behaviour, based on what I've read on MN over the years but there weren't the diagnostic procedures that there are now.
Many have gone on to be successful adults, trades, and local businesses. more successful than me as a well behaved kid At school, they had to just get on with things. School life didn't bend around them.

Ineffectual parenting:
I talk to parents whose children are struggling in school - some tell me their child refuses to go to sleep at midnight as they're on their phone. We suggest they remove the phone but the parent says that ends in the child being violent and abusive to them. As parents they didn't have to buy/give their child a phone at age 5/6/7, or allow apps/gaming, but they did and then failed to put boundaries in place and then act on those boundaries when they were crossed. Now they have an older child who is getting harder to manage and puberty and teenage years are on the horizon; the parents have lost control and they're shrugging at school staff with a "what can I do?".

I've also spoken to parents who have split/divorced and don't want to be the 'bad' parent, so let their child do/have whatever they want. This parent can't bear for their child to be unhappy, or hear from the child that the other parent is 'better'. Guilt reigns as this parent gives in, scared that they're emotionally letting their child down by saying 'No'. This child never experiences disappointment and that the world doesn't end if you don't get what you want, whenever you want it. Children need to experience these emotions, to recognise them and develop strategies to deal with them.

In your world parents have zero responsibility for actual parenting? You expect the government to do it all for you?

Let’s be honest. It’s because every fucking parent is on their phone far too much. Just walk down the high street or go to the park for a random sample of parents not paying attention to their kids.

Even before Covid I'd watch parents pick their child up from the Primary school gates whilst on their phones, nod at their child and then continue on their phones (talking or scrolling). It was so sad to see how some of these children wanted to talk to their parent, show off their junk modelling or ask about a play-date, but were basically ignored.

It's horrendous. I quit two years ago and I wouldn't go back for a big clock. I absolutely loved teaching and that is why I left.

Our school is not too bad for violence, but concentration has taken a serious nose dive in the last five years. The addiction to screens causes bored, fidgety children in even the most interesting lesson, who then act out because they can’t regulate themselves without YouTube.

DD1 attends the school at which I teach, and the reception class parents are generally lovely and supportive of the school but some of the parenting is alarming. This weekend I took DD1 to two parties, at both of which separate parents asked me to
intervene and deal with their child’s tantrum because ‘they just won’t listen to me’. One was literally trying to get her daughter to put her shoes on but couldn’t manage 🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s depressing. I watched a mum and dad on their phones yesterday at a garden centre restaurant. They ignored their child who would’ve been no older than 5. He was left looking around the restaurant. Any conversation he tried to initiate was met with silence.

i have never felt more rage in my life witnessing it. The depressing thing is almost every single table was full of adults doing the same thing.

But surely no family intervention and support intervention just means ineffectual parenting is being passed on to the children, an so on, the culture of ineffective parenting just perpetuating time after time.

We must be in the 3rd of 4th generation of this now, no wonder it's getting worse not better. The only thing that can break this chain is intervention. We had 10 years of interventions from the sources I mentioned and there were plenty more too. They were all stopped in 2010/11. So 14 years on here we are.

And what do you even do with the child who refuses to do any work, says 'No I don't want to and you can't make me' when you try and engage them, who refuse to come in after break time play. And when they are in class are throwing paper balls around the room to try and score goals, or get up and walk out at any point (no TA either to check on them), or go to the sink in class and plug the plughole with paper to have it then overflow, who bottle flip other children's water bottles as they wander round the class whilst you try and teach a Science lesson.

I think if I felt there was hope, if there was support available, I'd be able to stick it out. But I know that it'll take years to turn this around, if it can even be turned around at all. I'm not sure my physical and mental health, the sheer exhaustion of daily behaviour managing, can continue to do the daily grind without hope.

100% agree with this

I think there is a further problem that is something environmental, which is triggering develomental problems. I worked so hard to get my son the right start, but he had problems from 5 months old which were reactions to food.

The problem is that these things take a long time to spot, and by the time I figured it out, he was getting behind, and so started school behind and we've been running to catch up ever since. Now I've had to take him out of school because the school environment is so hard that he can't cope.

So I think there are a huge number of variables but they are all working against the kids and the schools and the parents.

I think everybody has to stop blaming and finger pointing and start working together.

I agree that kids need to be able to play out safely and have a parent at home, and safe schools, and not be babysat by screens. But it's going to need the whole of society to act to get to that place.