To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

I'm a parent and the mouth of time I read/hear the school and teachers being blamed is ridiculous. Parents and children don't seem to want to take ownership like they did when I was younger (not all obviously).

The respect seems to be gone. I would say this is more apparent at secondary level. The behaviour not the parents feeling the children are not at fault.

I don't know what the answer is as it's a societal norm. It's a real worry and I always encourage my children to be aware of how their actions impact others. They are respectful and kind. They are infallible and they make mistakes which is ok as they learn from them. I support teachers and when other children have bullied or harmed mine have had the school thank me for supporting them in putting consequences in place. I really feel for the schools at the moment. It must be incredibly difficult.

I feel you did the right thing. I hope the parents know what happened and also that the children harmed an adult. Hopefully your workplace will be more understanding in future and safeguard you. Also understand the triggers that led the children to be dis regulated and have the altercation in the first place.

I think I’ll make this my last year too. I feel sorry for the children, and the adults dealing with it. It’s incredibly stressful. The courses I go on seem to focus on scaffolding play - and facilitating rather than ‘teaching’. Which I understand, but as soon as I intervene and try to ‘teach’ e.g. this is how you build a sandcastle, this is how you hold scissors : the philosophy seems to put me in the wrong : like it should all happen through osmosis.

As a child in the 80s and 90s I was scared of my teachers (don't get me wrong, they were great) such that we wouldn't have dared to answer them back. There were about 30 kids and 1 teacher and, despite being in a really deprived area with a lot of issues, I don't remember anyone playing the teachers up like this.

My children also both went to the surestart play centres, bosom buddies etc and they were fantastic. Such a brilliant resource for help and support. It was such a shame when the facility went.

@karriecreamer I’m really interested to see the effects of screens on the brains of little babies. Not just toddlers, but 3 month olds being propped up in bouncers to watch YouTube videos and Cocomelon. I think people have forgotten how much babies learn in the first year of life because they tend to ‘do things’ like walk and talk in the second year. But in the first year they’re information gathering and setting up important pathways. If that’s being disrupted by endless dopamine hits from screens I wonder if it means something goes wrong somewhere.

Purely speculative on my part.

@Hopebridge

Sadly not. There are about 4 or 5 children who regularly kick/scratch/bite/pull hair. I’d say this happens on a regular basis - several times a day : and I was in the firing line today. I reported the incident but it was glossed over.

GoodnightAdeline I think this is right but all the way through childhood. The amount of kids at our school who can't function without their phone is unreal. They want them constantly and they can not cope when the pace of lessons does not match that of the endless YouTube and TikTok videos.

Why do we think this is happening?

Sure Start and children's centres round here (a relatively deprived area) were brilliant, i dont deny that but round here they were full of mums who didn't need it though. If it hadn't existed, these mums would have set their own groups up tbh.

There was 1 teenage mum who needed help and she used to come of her own volition and I expect the resource was invaluable to her.

There was 1 mum who was totally useless and she was brought by all manner of support workers in a taxi and didn't interact with her kids or anyone else. She didn't engage with the resource at all and so it didn't seem worth putting it on for her tbh.

I was a child in the 1960’s and none of these things existed. Yet somehow none of the staff at my primary school got injured by the pupils.
As previously said a minority of parents don’t actually parent their own children just leave it to schools/the state.

The cane in schools: gone. We didn’t have this sort of behaviour when I was a kid. We were scared of the teacher

I'm a primary school teacher of 20+ years.

To comment on older children, I've had work experience children aged 15/16 coming into my classroom for years. Without fail they've been helpful, polite, keen to get stuck in and enjoyed being with the kids. They've been a real help and a pleasure to help them on their first steps to a career.

In the last two years I've had approximately 8 work experience students.

Only two lasted the full week. Excuses included boredom, tiredness, can't get a lift, saying their mental health couldn't take it. One couldn't leave their phone alone, another said they couldn't come on the bus due to not being allowed and most of them looked purely bored and irritated by the whole experience.

Whenever I asked them to do a job like help a child do up or a coat or sharpen pencils they looked visibly annoyed and did so grudgingly.

Only one showed any initiative at all despite me saying frequently how I welcome them getting stuck in and giving lists of jobs to do if they got a second.

Now I have refused to take any more work experience students as filling in the long forms at the end of their time was also becoming cumbersome and I have a large class of 6 years olds to teach.

I don't know what has caused this very recent shift.

Today there was a teacher survey published

74% have considered leaving education altogether in the last 12 months (up from 60% in 2022/3)
Only 7% would recommend teaching as a job to someone else.

There's a HUGE crisis brewing. Kids are wild, parents have low expectations and they also won't accept when they/their kids are in the wrong. Teachers stick in the middle between SLT/MAT policies and belligerent kids and parents, lack of funding, massive work load to cover your own arse on a daily basis and prove you're doing your job "right" constantly.

The wheels are falling off the bus

Yep and teachers were respected; so were parents

I want to third this. I'm a nursery nurse. Out of 24 children almost half have some SEN/SALT/Behavioural issues.
They don't listen, can't sit for a simple story. Potty training is being left till later - lazy parenting in most cases. No independence skills. It's never been this bad over the years I've worked in childcare.

Gosh you are onto something there.
Before recently it was just CBeebies for babies toddlers. But now yes they can literally watch YouTube all day.

It is a real life brain experiment. It is very worrying.

Also, children see that there are zero consequences for bad behaviour.
No more a clip round the ear or any threats.
Not saying they should ever have been hit, but it definitely was a deterrent to messing around.

I was kicked, wrestled to the ground, sworn at etc, before the last ten years, so it’s a longer term thing, but it’s very apparent that the rate of acceleration of poor behaviour has increased.

We had an exam in the hall and one boy jumped out of the window and ran off. His parents refused to accept that he’d done it, despite the evidence of every pupil and member of staff in the room. Parental support- none.

Definitely

@Whinge my son is 4 and due to start school in September. He's on a (2 year) waiting list for an autism assessment, but his issues are mostly anxiety/a need for routine and to know what's happening each step and a bit of bother with dexterity (holding pencils, drawing etc) He is fully toilet trained and has been since just turned 2, can feed himself and (mostly) follows instructions. He struggles to interact with the other kids but chats to adults like a little old man.

When I have meetings with the absolutely amazing staff at his nursery they told me they have 17 kids to do paperwork for in terms of things like assessments, senco, 1-1 funding. They also said it's "refreshing" talking to us as we're on of the few parents actually engaging with it all and not in total denial there's any issues despite many being much more severe in terms of behaviour and things. The staff are saints as far as I'm concerned.

Is this connected to the pandemic which vastly diminished old fashioned play outlets, namely, communities where children grow up socialising. Now kids are in structured activities, playdates or screens, both parents stressed and working to keep lights on...

Obviously didn't go to my school in the 80s

I don't think people who don't in schools have any idea what it's like. They think we work from 9 to 3 and get "all those holidays". They wouldn't last 5 minutes in a classroom.

I described a typical day to my OH and he couldn't believe everything we were having to do. Over the years it's become much worse with no SALT, behaviour support services, very little EAL despite the increasing numbers of pupils.....I could go on and on.
Teachers and support staff are having to do all this on top of their normal work. I'm so glad I got out when I did - I put my name on the supply list but by the October holidays I'd got rid of all my school stuff as I knew I couldn't go back as supply teachers get even less respect than permanent staff.

Belting kids when they were naughty was the norm then

Part of this is that parents are stressed - and too much screen use combined with loss of 'the village' - community parenting. Loss of doorstep play, children being out together playing for hours - with one parent at home to facilitate this. Now you have parents out at work all hours both of them - they come home they are tired, turn on the tv/ the ipad.

Children evolved to play with lots of other kids and have multiple caregivers - grandparents, neighbours, aunts - all of this is gone.