WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

Absolutely!
He's meant to socialise, eat and buy clothes from £30 a month?!
Not happening.

I think you are totally unsuitable to be parenting him. Do you have any idea of the cost of things out there like a t-shirt? I feel so so sorry for your son. He deserves better parents. What are you going to do when he starts stealing things? Poor kid

@ClamFandango DD, almost 15, gets a very similar amount and is also expected to buy her own casual clothes from this. Like you, I buy undies/PJs and similar. I cover her phone & bus (school & getting around at the weekend). She previously got pocket money and was forever hitting me up for extras! If she wants more cash, she can find a job (we're in NZ and yes she can work at 14). She did fritter it at first, but not any more. IMO it's important to learn about budgeting and also about work - having to turn up on time, sticking with it even if you don't really enjoy it and so on. I've helped her with her CV so that she can do this when she's ready.

For those who think kids 'need' trainers that cost £150 - why?? Or branded hoodies. Of course they don't. That's a choice.

OP won't allow him to get a job.

She wants to tightly control his life and make it difficult for him so that he learns a life lesson apparently.

That life lesson being that some people will go out of their way to stiff you and thwart you in life, even your own Mother!

👆 This. My youngest got £10 a week 17-years-ago. She didn’t waste money and she wasn’t expected to buy her own clothes out of the money I gave her and she didn’t manage to save. Taking account of 17-years of inflation, I think YABVU.

OP expects him to clothe himself with this after he’s paid for his phone contract.

What is the point of having kids if you can’t/wont provide the basics whilst they’re still minors?

Oh and OP for the record may ask and have kids are learning plenty. They still know how to save if they want something. They’re also learning that I’ve got them…no matter what.

But actually you are in control of half of it ,as you make him save £30. I get the idea and I gave my kids £100 a month when that age, some saved some didn't. There was no expectation. They paid for their phone and their outings with friend and when it came to clothes I said what I would buy if they wanted a designer version then that extra came to top up from their £100. Funnily that thought hem to start saving as they realized they could have new trainers (basic ones ) and spend their allowance on crap or save it and top up for what they actually wanted . They also got paid for chores or if they wanted something that they needed to borrow for we looked at the prevailing bank rate , worked out the interest over the period they wanted to borrow it and not one of my kids actually did borrow it as they were horrified at the amount they had to repay .
Unfortunately they have to waste some to learn how to save

It’s hard but if that’s what you can afford it’s what it has to be but you did say you could afford to help him with his friends birthday - I think you should, I had a 15 year old 15 years ago - DD had £50 a month and we covered all clothing, phone and items for her hobbies - so £60 a month to include saving and clothing and hobby related items seems very tight - I think you should look at clothing your child separately from the allowance.

What a ridiculous comment.

Another one saying £60 isn't nearly enough for what you are expecting him to pay for.

£60 for spends and presents alone, and you pay for phone (contract and regular replacement), clothes, shoes etc = fine (but would still need some budgeting around Christmas etc).

Or, if you want him to pay a phone contract, save towards a replacement phone, buy clothing plus all presents etc, then maybe £120-150 a month would be more appropriate.

I'd expect parents to pay for all food, sports clubs, uniforms, gym memberships music lessons or anything relating to instrument upkeep, and thing required for school in either scenario.

I think you've set the budget to what you can afford and that's fine..no idea why some pp are bashing you for the amount when you can't afford anymore.

But could you help him earn some extra cash via Jobs you'd normally outsource to someone external. Better to have that money going in house and him benefitting from it. I.e. car wash, window cleaning, gardening,paper round ( do they even exist still?!) Or look for some part time ad hoc work for neighbours he could do. Loads of people need help with gardens etc this time of year- a day a week for a few hours won't interfere with school and builds up a good work ethic.

@Mrsttcno1 what a great idea to earn extra cash! Especially at 15, could probably do some pretty useful things.

I was what you described as an "ask and have" kid. I had a bit of pocket money for socialising and snacks. If I needed clothes, I asked and I got. If there was a big event, I asked and I got (if it was affordable).

What happened in our family is that money was discussed (shock, horror!!). My parents would say thing like "I know you wanted to go and see X band, but because we've had to have new tyres this month unexpectedly, we don't have £Y spare. Sorry, maybe next time". Or "We are giving you what we can afford as pocket money. If you feel like you want more you can apply for a paper round (13) or to work in one of the shops (16)".

What did I learn? That my parents would help me where necessary but that money didn't grow on trees. We have to work for it. The result? I have a good job, I chose a responsible partner, we are sensible with our income, which we work hard for and to maintain a decent one.

A lot or people who prefer their kids to be involved in sports instead of hanging around street corners or spending all their time on a computer. It is a good healthy way to spend their time.

I think it's appalling you expect a 15 year old to buy all his clothes out of that amount. Boys that age often have a growth spurt and he could need a whole new wardrobe. I disagree on the outlay you made him pay for the phone as well. How's he going to afford shoes out of that? I think it's mean to make him do without buying his best friend a birthday present.

These years are about making memories with your teens. Do you want him to look back with resentment on the way you deprived him?

My teens get £50 a month each (£25 from me, £25 from their dad - we're divorced).

But I pay their phone contracts. I buy all their underwear etc and about 4 times a year I do big clothes shop haul (spend about £100 a time on Shein usually) to update the wardrobe / accommodate for different seasons etc. I tend to buy them some clothes for birthdays and Christmas as well. If they want other clothes outside of that they would have to use their pocket money for it but it is my responsibility as their parent to provide their clothes imo.

They will save and spend birthday and Christmas money for bigger things they want, and they're lucky in a way that they both have birthdays a few weeks either side of Christmas, so they can get about £300 within 4-6 weeks which they will often put towards a clothes haul or other more expensive things they want (such as Jordans as I refuse to pay £100 for trainers!)

If their phone broke and needed repairing or replacing I would pay for that too as for me it is a necessity they have a working phone especially now their spending more time out and about with friends etc.

The £50 allowance they get generally goes on socialising (including bus fare sometimes if I can't give them a lift / pick up) food / snacks when out and they buy presents for friends, me, their dad, siblings etc out of that too. So they do have to "plan ahead" for example February is valentine's day and my birthday so they'll save some money from January to put towards it. But their dad and I also allow them to earn extra money. Their dad is a window cleaner so they'll go out with him for a day and work and he'll pay them. And they'll do extra chores for me, or babysit siblings to earn extra from.

My 16yo finishes her GCSE's in June so will be looking for a part time job then to be able to fund more things for herself.

But I do think you're expectations of what he should be able to do / achieve / spend and save on £60 are quite unrealistic tbh and is asking a lot of a 15yo boy while shirking some parental responsibility (i.e providing clothes) imo.

He pays for snacks at school and buys gifts for friends and family from this allowance, half of which is pre-allocated to savings? Feels a bit much.

Saving £30 and having £30 left to socialise, buy treats and clothe yourself is impossible to be honest.

I bought a secondhand iphone for a lot less than £200. It was a few years old but still far from obsolete.

@ClamFandango I'd ignore 90% of posters here as they haven't RTFT. Equally, you bear some blame for being unclear in the OP.
Essentially
a) You don't make him 'save'. It's in a separate account, to help him track. I do this too as an adult. I have my actual savings, and money that I don't want to just fritter away, in easy access savings rather than my current account.

b) You don't only give him £60. You also give him an additional tenner every time he goes out.
If this is once a week, that's £40 a month, bringing it up to £100 which is what some PP say they give their kids! So that's fair enough, isn't it?

Clothes are expensive, snacks are expensive. One nice item of clothing cost atleast £30
I would still buy my children clothes up until they were adults

My son's 11 and and couldn't live on that. His phone contract is £63 a month because he needs international calls and plenty data, he has friends in Latvia, US etc. So it's vital he keeps in touch. I pay his contract he gets £10 a week pocket money but I wouldnt dream of expecting my child.to buy his own clothes or snacks until he was earning a wage. You gave birth to him you should be clothing him and.feeding him. Expecting him to save on £60 a month with a phone contract and clothing and gifts for friends and family and snacks taken out is beyond unreasonable. It's just not doable in this day and age. You should be paying for clothing, phone and any day to day things. Fair enough if he wants to buy friends gifts then he should use his own. But don't expect him to save if your giving him £60 a month. Your basically leaving him £24 for snacks, hobbies, gifts, clothing it's definitely unreasonable. I mean it wouldn't pay for one item of clothing if like most teenagers he wants named brands. I seriously feel for your DS he must feel like the odd one out not been able to do most of what his friends are.
Carry on the £60 and start being a parent, pay his phone bill, if he goes over it or incurrs any added charges make him pay for that, give him money for snacks if he's going out. Pocket money should be for the things that are extra like the odd game or special treat not day to day living.

But buying birthday presents for friends is a nice thing to do. I buy presents for my friends and I’m over 50.
I get that the OP is trying to instil good budgeting habits, but I don’t think it should cross over into meanness.

The thing with not enough money @ClamFandango is that it makes it hard to ever get ahead and save, and in some ways 'encourages' over spending.

I read a lot about money and 'experts' who are realistic about what the average family has seem to suggest 125-150/month when you are expecting teens to pay for their own things (phone, friends gifts, their own clothing, school snacks etc), is reasonable to start. Less if they don't have to pay for their own clothing, haircuts etc. So maybe 80/90 if not including clothes. From that they should save 15-20% for bigger items or long term savings. That seems much more reasonable and practical to me. Honestly I had friends who received 50-60/month when I was in sixth form in the very late 90's!! They had to pay for their own clothing from that.

See if he will do extra jobs to earn a bit more from you. And help him apply for jobs etc to gain a bit more financial freedom.

I really understand times are tough but it really just doesn't seem enough for what you expect him to cover.