WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

5 years ago at 16 we started giving DD £100 allowance every month. This paid for casual clothes make up hair stuff etc. It also covered going out. We bought all big ticket clothes like coats shoes etc and clothes for special occasions, we also paid for her phone. She's just about finished uni and is managing finance fine.£60 is not much sadly for what you expect him to do with it.

Hmm I think this is quite harsh, I thought I was tight with my 14yr old. I give her £15 every Friday so she can go ice skating and maccies with friends every week, so that’s the only “allowance” she gets but I pay her sim contract (£10) and buy her clothes as and when she needs. I think expecting him to save £30 a month as well as buying all his clothes is unreasonable sorry.

Making him buy his own clothes at 15 is bloody awful In my opinion just awful
You as his parent should provide clothes until he has a full time job poor child

Your poor kid having to buy his own mobile phone and buy his own clothes. He cannot get a part time job at 15.
My kids started paying for stuff when they were 16 and had a part time job.
Stop expecting him to save money when he only gets £60 per month. And fgs help him buy a birthday present for his best friend

I believe the OP has said that she doesn’t want him to get a job.

£60 a month is really not a lot - when in fact he's only got £30 a month to play with once he saves half of it. Of course you are trying to teach him how to budget - and that is a good thing, but he really is being expected to pay far too much from the allowance he gets. I get the clothes thing, in terms of wanting designer gear etc, but you should be buying him some BASIC casual stuff, like some casual trousers and a couple of tops as a minimum - and if he wants anything fancier then he has to pay for that himself?

I take it your house insurance contents won't cover the cost of a phone repair? I think you are being very unreasonable not to at least help him out with his friends Birthday Present - can't he take some money out of his savings. That's what savings are partly for. Either the phone ( unexpected cost) or the Birthday present money?

It's no use talking to the OP, she just says that people are being nasty even though she asked.

CharmedCult that is very harsh. Not everyone can afford to hand out money left, right and centre to their kids. I know I couldn't when mine were teenagers. And even if I had the money I agree £60 is a reasonable amount - at that age I would expect them to want to have a Saturday job and have the pleasure of earning their own money - they appreciate it more if they have earned it. One of mine did pot washing in a local restaurant, the other delivered local newspapers.

Although a 15 year old can do some paid work, there are lots of restrictions on how much and when that they can do it. And plenty places simply won't consider anyone under age 16 because of the restrictions

This with bells on. You should be providing all his clothes- he’s still a child. I understand that with the cost of living crisis etc that you can’t afford to give him limitless funds but it sounds like you are extremely strict. FWIW I think you should be paying for his phone. Was it not insured?
I couldn’t be this unyielding with my kids.

I would cut him a bit of slack at 15 and help out if you can. I would also not be against him getting a job if you can't afford to support him more.

So you expect him to clothe himself, pay for a phone SIM card AND buy snacks with £30?

I'm all for cutting corners and doing things as cheaply as possible but you can't get a pair of joggers from £land for less than £10 plus phone at £6 and so £14 on snacks for a month is less than 50p a day.

I just don't think it's realistic. Yet he messaged to save the £30 !! You should be really proud of him and give him a break.

And yes I 100% five my teen the opportunity to earn more pocket money on top of her basic rate of pocket money. She gets £100 a month and pays for her own SIM card.

Interesting thread. Single parent. I have a good job and three kids. Now adults. I never gave them allowances. I paid for their phones and contracts which they had from age 13.
Food, house, travel costs were covered by me. Christmas gifts totalled £150 in total each and birthday about £30. Never cash. Always a gift.
They all got part time work at 13 and were expected to pay for hobbies, non-school clothes, presents for siblings and friends etc from their wages.

And my teenage daughter gets about £1200 a year in clothes and that's not fancy designer stuff. That's two pairs of trainers and a pair of school shoes at £80-100 each and a few boohoo/ PLT orders or primarily

I'd have paid for half of the phone. It was tough it got damaged. Mine spends £40 a month on books and the odd coffee.

I disagree with most PPs - I think £60 per month for him to learn to manage is reasonable at that age (assuming he's not also paying transport costs to college or anything). However, I think expecting him to replace the phone was probably a bit harsh - you could at least have offered to pay half, or a way by which you loaned him the money and he paid you back in eg household jobs. My kids had a similar deal and got p/t jobs to make up the funds to cover extra clothes. I bought all school clothes and basics (underwear, basic toiletries). They're all pretty good with money now.

OP has said she doesn’t want him to have a job.

I pay for both DC's monthly phone cost, and buy all uniform, sports clothing (not expensive branded) and underwear. I also buy friend's presents within reason. I pay for haircuts, and skin products and toiletries but not expensive make up. Obviously all food and travel, and contribute to food if they're out for day with friends.
They get £50 a month each for clothing that they can spend as they like on clothing. They then get £30 a month for whatever they want but have to do a total of 3hrs helping a month - eg chores. They can earn more at £10ph if they want to do more.
I give them more money if we're away on holiday.
DD is 17 and also has part-time job while at college and DS is 15 and not working yet.

If £60 a month is all you can afford in spends that's ok but realistically that only works out just under £13.85 a week, less his savings gives him £6.92 a week to buy his own clothes, socialize, buy gifts, snacks, phone contract etc.... for a 15yr old this is a stretch even if you do occasionally contribute towards meals out with his friends.
Only if you were buying his clothes would this be acceptable.
I agree teaching children to budget is important but this is definitely taking it to the extreme.
I would never have dreamt of making my children buy their own clothes out of their spending money. I know you say it's your money but it isn't, it's his! As a parent you give children spends, that makes it their money.
Also £13.85 a week for a 15yr old is a very small amount so you're already getting off pretty lightly.

Could your son stop buying birthday gifts for his friends? I think at 16 they could stop this.

I think you're giving him enough money. If he needs more then maybe he can get a paper round?

I have a teen the same age OP. I think financial literacy is so important, so here’s what we do (for comparison, not to tell you what to do—it works for us):

• Phone provided by us—it is a hand me down of ours. If anything should happen to it, we have another backup phone—an older model. DS pays their own SIM PAYG monthly bill, £5/month
• DC gets £5/week pocket Money— £4 goes directly into their current account and £1 goes into a children’s savings account. I will hand the savings over at a later date when they need a car or similar—it’s not a huge amount.
• I pay for all school uniform.
• DC gets £8/week as a clothing allowance (the money doesn’t go to them—they have an online tracker, and can see the amount of money they have. They have to think about what clothes they would like, and whether they want to prioritise ‘value’ or prioritise name brands. They are learning how to budget and prioritise. When I buy what they would like, I draw down the online tracker.) They also get clothes or shoes sometimes for Christmas/birthday, if that is what they would like.
• I use a budgeting app for myself called YNAB (YouNeedABudget) and I’m allowed kids’ accounts with my subscription. DC has ‘virtual’ cash envelopes on their YNAB account, where it shows how much money they have in each category. They allocate their pocket money into their cash envelopes (eg, meals out, phone bill, gifts, summer holiday spending, entertainment, etc) and have a budget for what they want/are saving for. I don’t get involved—I let DC make their own decisions—learning how to understand that they get a certain amount each week, and allocating and prioritising where the money will go. Before YNAB, I found that the money sitting in the current account was too daunting. It’s easier for them to visualise all of their small goals and spread their pocket money accordingly.
• We offer up different jobs around the house during school breaks—DC can choose to do all/some/none of these jobs to earn extra cash.

I thought the whole point of this was teaching him to budget. How does that work if someone else is telling him how to spend his money? It’s an awful idea anyway, one day his partner will be very grateful that he understands the importance of gifts and taking on board the mental load of making them happen.

It might be far healthier if he knew he could come to you for support, than do something stupid like take a high-interest payday loan out when he's 18. It's also a tad controlling to insist how much money he saves each month.
Unless he's irresponsible, and he doesn't sound it, you could cut him a bit more slack. You learn more by mistakes than people controlling you.
We don't give our daughter a set allowance. We've been through some tough financial times in the past couple of years. If we haven't had the money to give her, we've been honest. If we have, within reason, we give it. But she's learned by how we've adjusted our spending to what income is coming in, and working out on a monthly basis what bills there are to pay, what extra bills that month, never to take money for granted. Shopping in charity shops has also become a favourite hobby for her.
The last thing you want is for your son to become controlling with money when he settles down into a longterm relationship.