Same boys being chosen for sports

[Dantiger]

Just before Christmas, 8yo DS (year 3) came home a bit sad as his PE teacher had chosen 6 boys from his class to participate in a football tournament. He wasn’t picked but wanted to do it. I told him it was ok and that I’m sure it’ll be his turn for something.

Then in January his school started a cross country team and 4 boys out of the 6 from the football tournament were chosen.

This Tuesday just gone, the year 4’s were having a football tournament. Apparently one of the same boys who got chosen for the year 3 tournament and the cross country team was picked to go with the year 4’s.

DS doesn’t hang around with any of these boys but I remember at sports day last summer they all won the categories.

I just feel with sports all children should have the chance to take part in events. I really don’t think it’s fair that the same boy gets chosen for all of them over and over again.

I probably am BU as it makes DS sad but I do think it’s unfair

If he loves football so much I don't know why you haven't put him in a club. The kids he is competing with for a place will be playing it constantly- both in clubs and in their spare time with their mates. It's no wonder they get good at it as they're playing it every single day and it shows- hence them being picked.

I don't necessarily agree that all talent is completely natural. Yes, some kids are obviously naturally talented and you can see it, but equally- persistent practice and doing something over and over again is what polishes skill. I know of people who arent "naturals" at certain subjects but they practice it daily and put the work in and are now are excellent at it- its become effortless to them because they are doing it over and over again. If he isnt doing this then you need to address this because he wont get better at something without practice and he wont be able to compete with the kids who are doing it very regularly for this reason.

It isn't about picking the best kids though it is about picking the ones they know as it is easier. Same as my kids school

Both my DDs had sport disappointments at school.

With DD1 it was when she came top in the trial but wasn't picked. She's not sporty... but she can run long distance... she's like a duracell bunny. So she just does it out of school for fun. At Secondary she volunteered for house team but wasn't picked as shes quiet.

For DD2... she plays rugby out of school. Not brilliant, but reasonably promising. She wasn't picked for the rugby tournament as frankly, the boys at school couldn't accept a girl. They were all footballers. Shes looking forward to playing girls rugby next year as unfortunately its a not uncommon attitude. (Not all the boys.)

I think Primary schools are in an awkward position. They need both a reasonable level of confidence, and a team that will work together. So the teams end up getting picked on friendship lines as well.

I excelled in sports, particularly netball, as a kid. Used to drive me mad being made to compete on a team with someone who was hopeless at it. In PE fine, I would do my best to include, pass the ball gently to the hopeless ones ect. But competing was different. I wanted to win. Once I was made to leave the court by the oppositions umpire/teacher and stand on the sideline because I ‘wasn’t letting them [the opposition] get the ball’. That’s the whole fucking point of the game. My headteacher was furious when he found out. I was basically made to feel like I had done something wrong for being better than the rest of them. I have never forgotten that. But the reason I was better was because I practiced endlessly and watched my mum playing in a competitive team all the time. I was (and still am) hopeless at anything music related so was never picked for anything involving that and didn’t care because I knew that wasn’t a strength of mine.

Welcome to life. If your kid wants to progress and get chosen, you need to help them get visibility. And get the skills to be visible.

I think @QuillBill has a very good point.

If all schools pick their best players, it has the best chance of being a fun and fair competition. I would have thought most schools want to give their students the best chance of doing well, hence picking a good team.

But suppose your school doesn’t, and picks a mixed ability team, potentially including your son. Two things will happen. Firstly, the team won’t do well. He won’t have that much fun when his team gets beaten game after game. Secondly, sadly, the players in the team who are good will get frustrated, especially if they know children who were better than your son weren’t picked. They will go back to school and say ‘it was rubbish. We lost because x is bad at football. We would have won if y was playing.’

The school would have several difficult situations to handle that wouldn’t have arisen otherwise.

Absolutely PE lessons should be inclusive and mixed ability. But competitions are different.

However, you should be able to find a football club with players the right level playing in the right league for your son to enjoy, if that is what he wants.

But suppose your school doesn’t, and picks a mixed ability team, potentially including your son. Two things will happen. Firstly, the team won’t do well. He won’t have that much fun when his team gets beaten game after game. Secondly, sadly, the players in the team who are good will get frustrated, especially if they know children who were better than your son weren’t picked. They will go back to school and say ‘it was rubbish. We lost because x is bad at football. We would have won if y was playing.’

I agree with this. It wouldnt really be fair to put kids into actual competitions when you know their chances of success are not great- I don't see how that will accomplish anything except breed resentment and massive disappointment for everyone.

The harsh reality is that the boys on the football team probably all play for clubs outside. They have all probably been at football clubs since age 4/5
Your son hasn't had this coaching & experience. By year 3 the football boys will be on their 2/3 season of playing matches.
He can catch up but that's why they won't pass to him in the playground etc & why he's not on the team.
Find a sport he likes and sign him up

I’m always slightly surprised by parents of primary aged children who don’t spend their free time driving kids to sports clubs 😂
joking but we tried loads of them, partly as a way of filling the wet weekends and also because my children are much much nicer after a decent amount of exercise but primary school PE really didn’t get them moving enough.
If you’re a working parent it also opens up holiday club options - you’ll hear about them sooner through club Facebook groups and they’ll know more kids and be happy to go.

in our pretty rural small town area over the primary years my two tried:
football (3 different clubs, more politics than the Middle East, DS loved it until suddenly he didn’t)
rugby (dd loved it until it got too contact heavy)
swimming (non negotiable for me)
trampolining (chaos but fun when they were little and tired them out a treat)
ballet (didn’t last!)
cricket (all stars, very very mixed abilities)
watersports (loved it, compete at high levels still)
riding (dd loved it, hard to find time and £ for it)
cycling (badly organised and bikes were getting damaged so pulled them out)
tennis (great but the courts closed 😢
skateboarding
Most of them were not expensive and didn’t require special kit (a few exceptions, and I remember buying DS fake football shirts as I couldn’t being myself to drop £40+ on the official strip when all his friends had Tottenham home/away/god knows what full outfits)

their friends Also did Irish dancing, triathlon, street dance, tricking (indoor parkour), cross country, mountain biking, athletics and martial arts. and probably others!

now at secondary they still compete in some of those and also both love hockey, cricket, and get picked to do random things like indoor rowing comps because they can pick things up quickly.

while they were rarely the best at any one sport, they got picked a lot because they were generally sporty but also well behaved and teachers knew they could take them to away matches without any drama. That’s a big part of primary team selection!

All children get a chance to participate in sparky at school through PE.

And music and drama.

And more formal subjects like maths, science and English.

There will be competitions for each of these areas.

Mathletics. Spelling bees, music concerts, plays and sports fixtures.

Obviously the best children will be chosen for these.

It's not easy to see your child disappointed they weren't chosen - but it's very important they learn resilience and not everyone is the best at everything.

I think it's very wise you're planning on booking him in some clubs outside of school. It's important.

I'd look at a variety of things - for example swimming, football and cubs. If he's creative look at music lessons or drama clubs.

My ds wasn't at all sporty at a young age - in the fact his balance and co ordination are dire 🤦‍♀️😂 he's amazingly talented at StRM subjects. He always got chosen for the maths and stem competitions.

He also loved swimming and joined a club at 12yo from lessons which is actually quite late I've learned. He has now swam for Britain numerous times.

You won't know his strengths now at just 8yo. But opportunities to find his niche can be life changing.

I think you ABU and I say that as a parent who's DC are not good at sport.

At my old junior school, there were a group of boys who were picked for everything. They were taken to competitions for rugby, football, tennis, cross country, cricket and swimming. They won quite a lot. A remember a good few parents going into the heads office and complaining about it, and how their DS never got picked. I never once did this.

What I would say is that in PE/ Games and after school, all were welcome, but it was the matches that they got picked for.

I know a few of these sporty DC mums and they spend a lot of time ferrying them round to sports in and out of school. Now, at 18, I know a few of them are playing at county, and national level, and a couple of them are signed up for major football clubs.

What should we have done back in junior school? Should we have quashed that talent so others, much less talented got a go? Do you think we would have good football players, rugby teams, cricketers, tennis players, olympians, if every time a school had a match, or competition, we had to be inclusive of everyone....and lose!

The way I look at it, is that every DC has a talent. Go find it, and nurture it. My DC are very talented at something that the sporty boys are not. They actually have told my DC that they think he's brilliant at it, can he show them etc. My DC have been given the opportunity to shine in their area at school. If other parents moaned that my DC always got to perform, no one else is getting a look in, then he's have less chance to develop his own skill.

Work on what your DC is talented at is my advice.

Or it could be natural aptitude

Why is it difficult for people to accept on MN that some children are better than others at certain things... to the point a mum is complaining the same sporty boys are being chosen to represent the school at shock horror - sports!

Absolute nonsense.

Some kids are better than others at certain things.

That's life.

The best person at chess may not be the best person at football, and that should be ok

The best spellers would be chosen for a spelling bee. The best at maths world be picked for a maths-a-thon, the best at music would be chosen to represent the school at a music festival.
What else would you expect?

Oh god, I can’t stand this way of thinking, it drives me potty.

Let’s teach kids that they can be rewarded for no effort or hard work and let’s teach hard working kids that their efforts are pointless as they have to miss out because little Jimmy has decided he would like to run in the cross country team despite being unable to run 20 meters.

Why should a child who works hard and spends hours each week training in the cold, wind and pissing down rain and spends hours practicing in the garden and in the park miss out to a child who’s never played just because he’s decided on a whim he’d like to have a go.

What lesson is that teaching your son op? What lesson is that teaching the sporty kids who work hard?

If your son wants to get into a school sports team then he needs to put the work in. Why have you left it so late to get him involved in sports? Most kids have been playing sport since they were 3/4 years old.

“Education should be inclusive and about learning not one upmanship”

LOL have you heard about 11+, GCSEs and A levels? 😂😂

Kids are pitted against each other right from the start. There’s only a certain percentage of passes, A* grades and first class degrees available yknow.

YANBU

I’d want to know why so much of school time is being focused on the same children. If other children aren’t improving enough to be involved in the xtra curricular events there is no point running them-it’s not cost effective. All children need extra curricular not just 4. The SEN PE kids should surely be a priority and other levels of competency should have provision too.What is held for them? Wheee is the motivation for other kids?

Other areas of the curriculum absolutely don’t just focus on the top 4 for extra curricular events and celebration. PE should be no different.

He/ she will still have an obligation to provide progression for all kids and SEN provision. You don’t get to just bail out of subjects.

I’d ask the parent what they plan on doing to help their child develop.

Primary school PE teachers aren’t PE teachers, they’re just class teachers. In our school, different teachers take responsibility for different sports. There’s only so much they can do in the short time allocated.

Also why aren’t any girls included?

PE is taught by a sports coach at DS school

My DCs' primary school always picked the kids from the other class for sports and other events (two classes winter born and summer born) and often those with the pushy mums who seemed to hang round the school gates and the weak headteacher felt overpowered by.
Much better at secondary school.

I'm of the opinion that schools should only do this picking/exclusion thing for certain events if they also have plenty of all-ability activities. Otherwise, same kids are continuously developed, while other kids' skills stagnate. Definitely get him into one or more clubs outside school. The school stuff will then wane in importance, and he will thrive. Choose carefully. Talk to parents and turn up at trainings if possible to get the vibe. You want a club with transparent set of ethics and that develops all players.

Given the year 6 obesity levels focus clearly needs to switch in all schools from the same chosen 4 in extra curricular activities and the most able in PE lessons.