Same boys being chosen for sports

[Dantiger]

Just before Christmas, 8yo DS (year 3) came home a bit sad as his PE teacher had chosen 6 boys from his class to participate in a football tournament. He wasn’t picked but wanted to do it. I told him it was ok and that I’m sure it’ll be his turn for something.

Then in January his school started a cross country team and 4 boys out of the 6 from the football tournament were chosen.

This Tuesday just gone, the year 4’s were having a football tournament. Apparently one of the same boys who got chosen for the year 3 tournament and the cross country team was picked to go with the year 4’s.

DS doesn’t hang around with any of these boys but I remember at sports day last summer they all won the categories.

I just feel with sports all children should have the chance to take part in events. I really don’t think it’s fair that the same boy gets chosen for all of them over and over again.

I probably am BU as it makes DS sad but I do think it’s unfair

@DrCoconut no not at all , had two ds who were very sporty and often represented school. Academically they were just ok and never won any awards or things in these areas, which was fine as a competition is just that, someone has to win and someone has to loose and thats throughout life and learning from a young age helps, its never easy but it happens throughout life. Why shouldn’t those good at sport be recognised ? It would be pointlless a child being picked for cross country who wasn’t fit enough say and maybe couldn’t do it , how would that help them ?

I don't agree with that. Kids build skills in sports clubs, they also make friends, have fun, and develop confidence, if you find the right one for him. Disappointment and learning to deal with it and work harder if you want to is all part of it. My kids are sporty and they've experienced success and disappointment, and everything in between. They've been "picked" and "not picked" and are more resilient for it.

Being "sporty" and being "brainy" are not mutually exclusive.
It's not one or the other

How big is the school?

Y3 and 8yr is still quite young and our primary school had virtually no sports teams at that age.
If they did they were ad hoc one off teams and usually they would be desperate for kids to volunteer.

Yes some kids have natural talent but if these boys are good at football it will likely be because they play a lot, probably together for the same club.
Football starts so young that with boys in particular you have boys that play, alot, from very young, and boys that don't. If football is important to their Dad's they may have been playing for possibly even 2 clubs several times a week for 4 yrs.
The school on the other hand may not do any organised football training so picking the team will be based on those who do it outside.

When they get invited to a rugby tournament they will probably ask who plays rugby outside school.

I'm a bit surprised about cross country. Most teams are usually 4 people but there tends to be no limit on participation...unless again it was a one off? Then it possibly just about fitness.

Sporty kids don't get picked because they are popular.....its not always the case that they are.
They get picked because they volunteer (often when others won't), have basic skills that can be applied to this one off sports initiatives and because they tend to be reliable because they are already used to turning up to practice.
There were lots of cases of my kids being on school teams with people that didn't do sport outside school and despite putting their name down some just wouldn't turn up or would change their mind.
The teachers get to know who will be reliable and they can just throw in the deep end (literally for swimming) with little input...because at primary they can't teach them how to play every sport.

Now little Johnny, I know you've invested hundreds of hours doing training and practice and that has paid off now as you're good at football but I'm not picking you to represent the school at football because Billy's mum has emailed the headteacher complaining that he never gets picked. I know he hasn't done any training or practice but his mum doesn't think it's fair

That's a hell of a lesson to teach Johnny. Why bother spending all that time and effort when you can get mummy to complain instead

Football starts so young that with boys in particular you have boys that play, alot, from very young, and boys that don't. If football is important to their Dad's they may have been playing for possibly even 2 clubs several times a week for 4 yrs.

This 🖕🏻

Why would the teacher pick a child who never plays football? By Year 3 some have been playing for 2 teams every week & they play football every lunch. Why should they miss out on a place on the team? Why should the teacher notice DS if you have never even seen him playing & you are with him lots more?

Why would you not be honest with him & explain that some children are better players? You will just be making out that the teacher is being unfair when in reality they need to pick the best team.

At my school we tend to pick children who are pupil premium for this sort of thing. That could be why some children get picked repeatedly. My own DC frequently miss out on things and get really disappointed but I know it’s because PP children are being given opportunities (I obviously can’t communicate that to my own DC!)

@araiwa Not really sure why you’ve mentioned a head teacher or getting “mummy” to complain. Never once said I have complained or was going to

Last 2 competitions were a science thing and a maths competition. Same child picked for them because they had best chance of representing the school. That child isn't on the football team

I find it varies. In my DS1's primary school class, the kids who were best at sport also happened to be the brightest children academically. In my DD's class this wasn't the case at all - the sportiest girl was fairly average, while the sportiest boy was well below average academically. So I understand both arguments - "the same kids are picked for everything" and "it's x's one opportunity to shine". Either can be true!

I think the message that some people are smarter/faster/more agile than others is an important one for children to understand.

The pleasure you get out of sport isn’t the match/competition - it’s in the training. Enjoy the process of trying to improve.

At his age all that matters is having fun, moving his body, being active and being social. That’s how you have a life time love of sport/live a healthy lifestyle.

I find the same few kids get picked because being active and young for activities like running/football is actually quite unusual now. IME the number of children who can’t run a mile non-stop is shocking. Therefore as a teacher you have very little choice over who to take because there are only a few who could even give it a decent go.

As someone upthread said - imagine your son is taken to XC and finishes not just last, but absolutely miles behind everyone. That isn’t going to motivate him to do it again - it just gives him an awful experience of running. If you want him to be picked/he wants to go - take him to junior parkrun on a Sunday and get him used to running.

Of course the best ones at sport are chosen for this, why wouldn’t they be?

As far as what your DH said, at this age it may be hard to see if DS “has it” or not really!

My oldest DS is 16 now and plays 3 sports, 2 of them well 🤣 He wasn’t very good at them at all before puberty. There will always be some kids who show shocking ability very early, but there are lots who grow to be quite good who weren’t when they were very young. So if your DS likes going to football outside of school and is having fun, let him keep at it as long as he wants to.

That's very true, especially in sports like football. Those who show potential very young are often not those who end up making the U16/U18 academy teams.

I know you feel sad when it affects your child but please use this as a learning opportunity.
Life is full of disappointments for all of us. If you don’t learn how to deal with them as a child how can you cope with them as an adult.
I tried to ensure my children had a wonderful life with no upsets or bad experiences. Unfortunately it made them adults with little resilience.

Scarydinosaurs re the number of children who can’t run a mile - this is a good point! I was frankly shocked at sports day last year, of course not everyone is a runner, but the number of overweight children who couldn’t run at all, let alone fast!

Same here! My son is not great at sports either and never gets picked but he is very intelligent and brilliant at programming, maths and science. I wouldnt expect the school to pick students for competitions who arent showing real skills for it- what's the point?- it would only end up in disappointment and loss when competing with kids who are showing natural skill.

If he really loves football then enrol him in a football club which will be great for his confidence and it will help him progress in the sport. I get that it's sad for him but we cannot all be great at everything we want to do- I'd love to be a singer but I sound like a cat being strangled. Thats ok- I am really good at other things instead. Everyone has their unique talents and it's about finding what area you shine in and focusing on that.

I think there is something about there being kids who never have a place to shine. Not everyone can be top of the class academically or the winner at sports day.

And that is OK. These kids are often the ones with real resilience. The ones who keep plodding on. The number of threads I read where an 18 year old is devastated at not getting into Oxford or whatever as it’s the first failure they’ve ever had in life make me worry for society a bit. A crucial part of growing into a resilient adult is not getting picked, and failure. At the time these things can really upset you as a parent but I now look back on the disappointments and upsets my DC had (some significant, others not) and realise it was good that they experienced them.

You would also have to either then ban competitions that are based on academic ability, or purposely choose children who aren’t good at maths etc, to represent the school, rather than the top five performing kids in maths, which is of course stupid.

Being good at something isn’t one upmanship, and thats the attitude that causes things like shame about being academically gifted.

I was playing rugby professionally when I was still at school, would you really have wanted me on the same team as someone who could barely hold a ball to have me running towards them for a tackle during school training?

What makes you think a child who isn’t gifted at certain sports can’t be academically gifted as well?

hi Op can I give another perspective. My son is really good at football and has found a lot of primary and secondary school sport very disappointing.

His main joy in life is sports - he commits hours at weekends, after school not just to playing in a team but going to the park, football cage, practising playing etc

In school he finds a lot of lessons boring - but LOVES pe!! here he actually is in the subject he loves - BUT - because it's not considered good in state schools to focus on competition in lessons - he is just bored in pe as well!

The competitions like this are the one moment he gets to show and enjoy at school the subject he loves and gives him so much pleasure.

He literally lives for those moments.

now - I have another child who is physically weak and crap at sport so I TOTALLY hear you - and I think there should be a lot more sport at school that focuses on enjoyment. We should encourage children to participate a lot more in sports for fun not just for competition.

but when there is a tournament - that is going to the kids who live this day to day and give it hours of their time.

we already 'stream' in secondary for academic subjects! nobody expects kids who are good at maths to dumb themselves down and go along at a lower level so that everyone feels included.

We need to do both - we need to increase fun and participation for those who are not talented/ particularly good at PE - and we need to allow competitive kids who are good at sport to enjoy competing.

We actually should I believe do PE every single day in school - one lesson a day and a huge huge amount more investment in time and money for physical activity in school.

Our secondary school streams for PE! I was surprised initially but actually it makes sense.

final thought op - your son is definitely missing out if he actually wants to play football but you haven't put him in any sort of weekend activity for football!

also, do you have even one afternoon a week where you can take him and some friends to a park with a ball? that is just how my son has got good - hours and hours of playing.

my son has also made so many friends through football - you seem to think a child is just 'naturally good' ! this makes no sense.

Just jumping on to say get him to a club now if he likes football. My DS wasn't interested at all until secondary school but now loves it. We're struggling to find a team that's the right (low,) level for his skills and he's had to leave one for being bullied for not being good enough / never getting on a match team. We've (I think) found him one now but it wasn't easy.

Definitely enrol ds in a club. Think of the time to sports people spend training. They don't come out the womb wearing boots. Innate talent makes a difference but you can train and be decent in lots of cases.

Dd is a competitive athlete and I'm not sure if she'll ever 'relax' into it and flow like some of the absolute elite in her sport but she trains hard and has won local and regional competitions. More importantly has made friends and is really confident in what her body can do and learnt not to let a fall damage her confidence.

Definitely get him in a local group. Just make sure it's a good fit and don't be afraid to change and try a few. It took about 3 attempts to find the right club for dd and I watch to see the relationships between the coaches and teams in other groups. One I saw scold a little girl after a poor warm up while other teams have shared sweets with dd when she's been the only competitor from her team and lumped in with them. I always have options in my head if her team dynamic changes