Same boys being chosen for sports

[Dantiger]

Just before Christmas, 8yo DS (year 3) came home a bit sad as his PE teacher had chosen 6 boys from his class to participate in a football tournament. He wasn’t picked but wanted to do it. I told him it was ok and that I’m sure it’ll be his turn for something.

Then in January his school started a cross country team and 4 boys out of the 6 from the football tournament were chosen.

This Tuesday just gone, the year 4’s were having a football tournament. Apparently one of the same boys who got chosen for the year 3 tournament and the cross country team was picked to go with the year 4’s.

DS doesn’t hang around with any of these boys but I remember at sports day last summer they all won the categories.

I just feel with sports all children should have the chance to take part in events. I really don’t think it’s fair that the same boy gets chosen for all of them over and over again.

I probably am BU as it makes DS sad but I do think it’s unfair

@QuillBill Never really thought of it that way. In my eyes it was just something DS wanted to be part of and continuously didn’t get chosen

Sometimes, it isn't just the " best " that are chosen though. Sometimes, it's more about whether your face fits, whose in with the in crowd.

Just be aware that boys football clubs are a minefield. Hugely competitive and that's just the parents. The boys who don't pass to him at school will be replaced by new boys who won't pass to him.
Voice of bitter experience.
DS2 did football from about aged 8 and it was years of misery tbh.

@onccno Well this is something that actually crossed my mind. When I am in the playground at drop off and pick up, these boys are always grouped together, laughing, joking, you can tell they seem to be ‘popular’ they stand out from the rest of the boys in DS year group. Hard to explain really but they do seem to be the sporty type. The designer coats and trainers etc.

I am not being judgy, it just seems typical that these boys are the best at sports. I’m not saying they are being chosen for their looks or the clothes they wear, they won at sports day so they are good at what they do. Hard to put my finger on really

It's part of our school pupil promise that everyone gets a chance to represent the school. So everything is mixed ability teams - academics and sports.

Drives me nuts. Outside clubs aren't ran like that and neither are most other schools / life.

I look forward to secondary when academics and sports reflect real life and are a meritocracy. Kids won't learn to be resilient (and working in graduate recruitment, I wish they were) if they don't learn from an early age you have to work at something to succeed.

It’s competitive sport. The school is competing against other schools. Obviously the kids who are best at sport are going to get picked. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for their effort and talent? There are plenty of activities throughout childhood where every kid gets to have a go, but it’s only fair that once in a while kids actually get recognised as being the best at something.

I was awful at sport and music. Obviously I still got to join in with PE and to thump on a drum and sing along with everyone else in music lessons, but I would not have expected to be picked to play in a sports tournament or to play in the school orchestra because that would have been absolutely ridiculous.

Nope. PE Teacher should choose the best, the fastest.

IME sport goes from who wants to participate into who has aptitude from year 3 onwards. Are the sporty kids picked for music and academic teams too?

This is why my kids did niche sports out of school rather than in school.

I've got two children and my youngest was one of those who was picked for everything at primary school. On the first day she was chosen as class representative and it went from there. She did turn down Mary in the nativity though as she wanted a beard.

She isn't necessarily one of those children who is good at everything but what she is is reliable. If someone has to say something about tadpoles in assembly then she will think of something to say because she will have been listening in the tadpole lesson.

And she doesn't leave her jumper behind or need the toilet on the bus because she didn't go before they left.

I don't think I would have noticed any of those things if it wasn't for my other dd who is the total opposite.

They probably are popular - if they play football and thus know about it. Lots of primary aged kids enjoy footie so it's often a topic to talk about.

@Dantiger I am glad you see to some extent why your DS wasn't chosen for the footy match - I agree with others, the school should send its best team.

The kids who play footy outside school will know more about it and be better at it. The music analogy is a good one - a child might do music at school and like it, but if the school wants to send a quartet to a music competition, it's going to be the four who have clarinet lessons outside school.

You say you don't know if your DS is any good at sport/football/running - but if you are relying on a couple of hours a week at primary school then he's hardly going to learn or improve enough to challenge for the team. Getting him to join a team is a good idea; I would also explore other sports. If he is 8 he will soon be able to join a local athletic club and try a range of disciplines there, for example - then he can excel in that at secondary school sports day.

My son is very like the boys you describe OP, he is yr 3 (private school) always chosen and parents do comment. But he has been playing selective football since he was four and swimming seriously since the same age. His football skills allow him to also be great at hockey and rugby. As a second child he also learns from his big brother.

His big brother started year 3 in the c team so we joined a local football team and he trained hard - by year 5 he was in the A team - but just for football.

The difference in the boys is innate physical ability, my younger son is just really strong and physical - my older son won the spelling bee - my younger son will never be entered - he is dyslexic.

All children are good at different things, but it wouldn’t be fair to hold back those talented at one thing to make way for others - whether that is sport, spelling or chess.

Send your son to a club, my older son gained a world of confidence from improving his football.

Them kids have most likely been playing for a few years already. It is sad for your DS if he wants to play but understandably it's a competition and they're going to pick the children who are most skilled, these are going to be the kids who have experience, training and matches behind them.

If your DS is wanting to join a team it's definitely a good idea, any kind of after curricular activity's and new skills are good for them! There will be different ability level teams around, you might even find that he does have a natural ability for it (which some definitely do!) and he'll be in the running for the tournaments another time!

I'm struggling to think of any external competitions they take part in that aren't sports except the chess club which takes part in tournaments at other schools?

So far this year my daughter has taken part in debate, quiz and science quizzes against other schools. There seems to be plenty of non-sport competitions out there.

It's tricky though, because we all do better at learning skills if we don't believe that the skill is innate. You can get better at lots of things through dedication, practice and hard work, but we give up if we think you have to be born with that skill to be any good at it.

Unfortunately once they get to around that age it’s no longer a turn thing and the kids who are the better players get to play.

My DD was similar. She then joined a football club 2 years ago and now, at 12, is on the school team and loves it. Plays football 4x a week after school,and has improved incredibly

OP, having had two boys, I'd say it might be the other way around. Not that they're picked because they're popular, but that they're popular because they're good at football. Being good at football is important to primary age boys.

And I think this is key here.
It's fine for the same handful of kids to get picked to represent the school time after time if a school is balanced and has a range of other opportunities for different types of kids to shine.
The issue to me comes when a school values sports above all else and therefore makes mini-celebrities of these few sporty kids.
My bright, creative but deeply unsporty DS was never ever chosen to do anything all through primary school. Even the swimming gala (and he is a good a swimmer so thought he stood a chance) made a group of lads do a cross country event and a swimming gala in one day rather than take a punt on somebody else for a change.
There were very, very few other opportunities all through school which was quite hard to watch but then in his final year he got the lead in his end of year musical and was amazing.
So yes definitely encourage your ds to explore things outside of school and find his place to shine. They all deserve that.

I don't really think the school can be criticised for picking the best available players for a competitive event. I would expect them to do the same for a non-sports competition as well.

I'd be willing to bet that the boys who are being picked for the football team are playing/training with a team outside school hours and likely playing football a fair amount in their spare time too,. It seems your DS isn't doing these things? (happy to be corrected if I'm wrong) so maybe there is a way of explaining to him that it's not really fair to expect to be picked ahead of those who are putting in a large amount of practice hours?

Definitely encourage him to join a club outside school as it may be that he is naturally a very good player and regular training/matches would start to bring that out of him. Many football skills are at least partially transferable to other sports too, as is the natural physical fitness from regular exercise, so even if it turns out football isn't for him then he has more chance of finding a sport that is, whether that's via PE lessons, school clubs or outside of school.

I agree - you don't want to tell him that some people are just better at something, particularly something like football.

At the very, very elite levels, then yes, some people have a physical advantage over others (most professional footballers are tall for example and swimmers are tall and have big feet) but most kids who are good at football at primary school are largely good because they play a lot of it.
It's practice and skill building.
That might be in a club outside school but could just as well be that they have two older brothers and spend most of their weekends kicking a ball around the garden or park.

Have you read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? The premise is that most successful people are successful because they spend a lot of time on their skill - the 10,000 hour rule.

So don't tell him the other boys just "are" better. It's not true. They are very interested in football and very motivated to practice plus they have the opportunity to do so. It's not innate skill at this point.

Read Malcolm Gladwell- Outliers
Outliers: The Story of Success is the non-fiction book written by Malcolm Gladwell and published by Little, Brown and Company on November 18, 2008. In Outliers, Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. To support his thesis, he examines why the majority of Canadian ice hockey players are born in the first few months of the calendar year........Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to achieving world-class expertise in any skill, is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing the correct way, for a total of around 10,000 hours, though the authors of the original study have disputed Gladwell's usage.[1]

We have the same but across sports and academics and art. Always the same children. I’ve accepted it now.

Relative physical strength changes as they grow older so it's not necessarily the case that the same kids who are good at football etc now will be the best as teenagers. But clearly kids training and playing outside of school will have a huge advantage, both in terms of skill and fitness.

Having said this, with the cross country I do agree they should choose the best but actually I think they should have got the whole class to run round the field and chosen the winners as some kids are naturally fitter than others and it's not always the ones you expect who are good.

OP I think you should worry less about the school thing and concentrate on getting your son to find a physical activity that he enjoys. Be it football, martial arts or junior park run etc. It's great he is showing an interest!

This has always happened. They are always going to choose who they perceive as best. Would he be better off in clubs maybe. He could also do a range of sports to find what he is best at.

op, you’re likely to find rugby, or basketball less competitive and the coaching is better