Same boys being chosen for sports

[Dantiger]

Just before Christmas, 8yo DS (year 3) came home a bit sad as his PE teacher had chosen 6 boys from his class to participate in a football tournament. He wasn’t picked but wanted to do it. I told him it was ok and that I’m sure it’ll be his turn for something.

Then in January his school started a cross country team and 4 boys out of the 6 from the football tournament were chosen.

This Tuesday just gone, the year 4’s were having a football tournament. Apparently one of the same boys who got chosen for the year 3 tournament and the cross country team was picked to go with the year 4’s.

DS doesn’t hang around with any of these boys but I remember at sports day last summer they all won the categories.

I just feel with sports all children should have the chance to take part in events. I really don’t think it’s fair that the same boy gets chosen for all of them over and over again.

I probably am BU as it makes DS sad but I do think it’s unfair

Oh give it a rest. No they wouldn't. Kids need to learn they cannot be good at everything and sometimes they're going to be overlooked for someone better. They need to learn to deal with their disappointment.

What are the brainy competitions primary schools are taking part in?

I'm struggling to think of any external competitions they take part in that aren't sports except the chess club which takes part in tournaments at other schools?
And I'm fairly sure they only enter the kids who are at least competent in those tournaments - plus chess has a grading system anyway so you play against competitors of a similar standard anyway.

I've never heard of inter-school competitive spelling bees taking place in the UK like in US schools but it may happen in some areas.

I suppose debating/public speaking competitions potentially although I think that would be more at secondary school levels.

Don't just go to the after school football club. My DD was ok until around year 4. The girls in the after school club were all playing at local football teams and they were training with the team another evening and then playing matches in the weekend. Many also go to football club in the holidays. Football gets very competitive. From this age, the gap between those who put in the hours and those who don't widens from my experience. DD dropped out in Year 4.

There aren't much for brainy kids for sure. DC primary has a choir and an orchestra and they enter competitions. DC is in the school orchestra. I think that's the only thing outside of sports teams. This is a state primary in England.

I would feel the same way as you if my son told me this. I Think it would be more unfair on the other boys who practice sports regularly to not be picked for competitions so that people who are not as passionate get a turn.

They probably don’t pass to him because he’s not very good, I really don’t mean that unkindly, he’s just in a different league so to speak. Getting him involved in a Saturday football team with some new friends where he could learn some new skills would be a great place to start.

Just spoke to DP about it as I never mentioned DS disappointment at the time. He thinks with football some children either “have it” or they don’t. Especially boys apparently. I am not clued up on football so I have no idea🤷🏻‍♀️ He thinks sending DS to some kind of football club could be a good thing but wonders if he goes and misses out on another tournament at school then this will knock his confidence. I get what he’s saying but surely with a bit of practise at least DS would have a little bit more of a chance? DS wants to join a club anyway so that’s what he’ll be doing

You can always sign him up for sports outside of school.

Now the warmer weather is coming, ask his friends if they want to meet up on some greenery for a kick about or even you/partner have a kick about with him. All practise is good and even if he isn't the next Haaland, at least it's exercise, he enjoys it and good way of socialising.

I think your DP is both correct and incorrect. I mean clearly to be a professional footballer requires innate talent. But if you DS plays at a social club, then he'll learn to be better. Then chances are he'll be able to join in the other boys at play time. However, you need to have realistic expectations. The competition for school sports teams get very fierce very quickly towards end of KS2 and gets worse in secondary. There are just many very good players and have devoted hours and hours on their sports. Chances of making the school team isn't great if you start at 8yo. (Because most boys start a lot younger and the teams are by age). But if he's keen to learn to play better, then don't leave it too late. At some point, your DS won't be able to join any football clubs because they'll all be selective. There are any

If he tries and still fails to be a great footballer and selected for a competitive school team, that isn't a terrible thing!

Your job as a parent isn't to ensure he never experiences failure. Your job is to help him be able to deal with it and move on - to keep progressing and challenging himself, not to just judge his progress by some external measure of competition.

He can enjoy football just for fun too.

We enter maths and science competitions where we send the best at those subjects, for sports competitions we spend the best players at the sport. Very occasionally, we can send a second team but most local sports competitions are restricted to one team per school so naturally we send the better players. We do enter " training " events for sports we don't generally do at school- I remember a lacrosse day which was great fun- where we can send those who haven't played before but might like it. But, for competitive events, we send the best.
Local out of school teams will generally have a first, second and even third team, one club nearby has at least seven teams so everyone gets a go!

There is good enough at football to be picked for a school side and there’s innate special talent which is often evident by age 8 or less. These kids will be scouted by the big clubs around this age. My own DS was and he played academy level football for a bit, county and was offered sports scholarships etc at top private schools. Most of it was a double edged sword.

Your DS only needs the former which pp said can be improved with some time and effort. Depends how much he wants it.

As for there isn’t anything for brainy kids at primary , how about the 11+? How about the phonics test? How about SATs? How about sitting on Alpha Rabbit table or whatever it’s called these days?

You send the best when competing, some people just seem to excel in sport, I was decent enough to get on the school hockey and cross country running team. DH is very good at sport and we had a DS that is also very good at sport. My childhood friend was a better runner than me and made it to county level.

Just sign him up to a club, let him enjoy that. What you need to do as a parent is teach resilience. Life is full of disappointments, not many get every single thing they want.

Sending a child to a football game at another school who has never played outside of PE lessons could have ended in disaster if he was the only one who didn't play for a team.

He would have had to learn the rules and if it was outside you would have had to provide him with boots and shin pads.

I think joining a club outside school is a really good idea.

I know what people are saying about the best players will get picked for competitions, but this is why a higher proportion of successful football players, for example, are born between September and December. These boys start off with an advantage because they are the oldest in the school year, so they are chosen more and get more training, which widens the gap and results in a big positive feedback loop for those boys.

Ditto 11+. It’s “age adjusted” but this is in reality bollocks. If you check out the number of children that don’t actually take it at all in grammar counties it’s a huge percentage of summer borns. So it doesn’t just affect sporty boys - the Sep-Dec advantage!

It’s a conversation we’ve often had as parents at our school as they deliberately send mixed ability teams to competitions & the kids then lose, as the other schools send their best athletes…

Yes, same as @WarningOfGails. My DC's primary always chose a mixed ability team and gave everyone a turn, sadly this meant they always lost all sporting fixtures because other schools didn't do this. No one likes losing all the time, and my DC were pleased to start secondary school and find that the team chosen was the kids who were best at that sport.

OP, I think your DH is right that some children are naturally better at football (or any sport) than others. But that's no reason not to join a club. Ideally find a club big enough to have several teams for each age group, so your DS can find the team that is the right level for his ability.

I do get what your saying and can imagine you and your son are disappointed.

However although inclusion is nice we are all different people. We all do different jobs and don't all get the same salary do we? It's not such a bad thing to start realising that as a child.

I'd be really annoyed if my sporty kid wasn't chosen for someone who isn't sporty. He's not academic and it's the only time he gets to 'shine'. Ironically I have a good all rounder too and wouldn't be too fussed if he didn't get picked every time as he's awarded in lots of different areas.

As for football, kids football should be inclusive but you have to be selective with what team you choose. Some are really harsh, look at the ability of the players when you go to training and see if it's well matched to your son. Find you local league Facebook page and post on there you need a low level team for the age group you want for someone just starting. You can always move him to higher teams if he takes to it.

Yeah Toblerbone while losing is part of sports it’s quite a blow to kids to always be sent out to lose, & kids are quite matter of fact about it - ‘of course we lost because we had to have Tom and Tilly on the team…’

i do try to ‘check my privilege’ on this as my kids are athletically able & we invest a lot of time outside school on their sports, so they are lucky they get opportunities to compete in other ways.

I agree op. The kids I really felt sorry for where the ones who parents couldn't (work/health/money) or wouldn't (don't prioritise sport/lazy fuckers/mean) take their kids who want to do sport to clubs.
My DC get picked for every single thing, they do loads of sport, have a bit of talent but importantly lots of experience. Their mates who didn't get taken to clubs all week also didn't get picked in primary, therefore never got practice, confidence or fitness levels. Makes them think they are shite at sport and puts them off for life.

It’s a conversation we’ve often had as parents at our school as they deliberately send mixed ability teams to competitions & the kids then lose, as the other schools send their best athletes…
Agree with you. That always strikes me as a way to kill off motivation in pupils, especially those with skill and talent.
Why bother investing your time and energy in the school team if the people who are meant to be on your side are setting you up to lose all the time?

There's lots of children who don't excel academically but are brilliant at their sports, or drama, or music and it annoys me when people think it's fine to hold those children back in those areas in order to give competition spots to those without much skill, or big speaking roles to mumblers or those who won't learn lines/won't attend rehearsals, or singing parts in shows to people who can't hold a tune

It's ok to have fun sports/drama/music and competition/show level participation in those fields.

I totally get that if the school wants to win the competitions then they have to send their best players, that’s understandable. It’s just hard to see your child disappointed. As I said earlier, I’m not completely sure on his ability as I am not there during PE lessons but obviously the PE teacher sees something in said boys that he doesn’t in DS.

I think maybe a talk to DS about different abilities would be a good thing too? And gently explain that some people are just generally better than others at things (maybe not so harshly though) I’m just worried that this may get worse as they all get older. Hopefully not though with the plans to sign him up to some kind of team. Fingers crossed if this happens then he can put his focus onto that rather than the school comps

How would he feel if he went to a tournament and he couldn't play half as well as everyone else?