To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

[ballybean]

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

My first impression was shock, but then on reflection it’s no different to modern offices? Where there might be floor to ceiling windows/glass doors. It’s not the weirdest thing

Surely this 'glass box' is just an isolation room, but with windows so they don't need to waste staff time on supervision.

They're sent there when they're pissing about in class and wrecking everyone else's opportunity to learn.

Yes, I know we should be digging into the reasons for the misbehaviour, and I'm sure that'll be happening too. But when your lesson is being destroyed, and the other pupils are suffering, sometimes you really do just need to get them out.

They don't work! Well they work for the borderline pests,, but definitely not for the complete pains who endure anything rather than behave. Putting them in a glass box where people can see what they do could be a cost effective way of managing these bullies.

How on earth is this the same? If the whole school worked in glass boxes it would be fine. But it’s just singling out 3 children in the whole school based on their misbehaviour.

As others have said countless times: if everyone in your office worked in normal rooms but there were just 3 glass rooms and you were put in one to work for the day because you were a bit short with your line manager - then THAT would be a similar parallel to draw.

Shame works as a sanction. It's powerful, and humiliating. And I suspect it's as/more effective than social media to regulate bad behaviour. To avoid this punishment, all you need to do is........behave. Stepping out of line loses its appeal.

you all sounds like fun folk

Sadly @cottoncandy260 , there probably isn't enough money in the pot to do anything useful. Because the remediation needs to take those problem kids back to infancy to solve it. There are no resources to mitigate the effects of bad or indulgent parenting and absent fathers.

"They don't work! Well they work for the borderline pests,, but definitely not for the complete pains who endure anything rather than behave. Putting them in a glass box where people can see what they do could be a cost effective way of managing these bullies"

Sending them to an isolation room/box/cubicle doesn't work for 'the complete pains who endure anything rather than behave' either - you said it yourself, they'll endure anything. They will never show any vulnerability, however they feel, because it's safer for them not to.** There are complex issues at play with most of these children.

I think we need to separate the issue of bullying and isolation too - bullying needs tackling with a robust process to keep the victims safe, and to hold the bullies accountable whilst looking to remove the bullying behaviour. These isolation spaces will do nothing to change the behaviour of bullies, because their behaviour isn't linked to whether they're liked/not liked/humiliated etc. It generally comes from a sense of power, when they have absolutely none in their life; that's not an excuse - I was bullied myself, it's unacceptable and can be incredibly dangerous - but the issues need tackling at a deeper level than sending them to isolation for a lesson/day/week whatever. The victim needs to be kept safe, and the bully needs intervention to either tackle the underlying issues, or potentially specialist provision if necessary (of which there is a crisis level shortage, which brings me back to the education system being a shit-show on the large scale).

Not for the pupils who will be in isolation week in-week out - it does absolutely naff all to shame them (at least on any level that will show), because they would rather be thought of as dangerous and tough, than in any way emotionally affected by humiliation.

There are moments now that I am profoundly grateful not to have a school age child.

Me too, I’m profoundly grateful that my DC are home educated and don’t have to set foot inside these places for SO many reasons.

I defer to your greater experience on this @Rockhopper81 . What's your answer? My apologies if you have already given it above.

Slightly tangential but my brain has gone there so I’m going to say it.
That tory donor that made those Diane Abbot comments is based in our nearest big city, my husband also works in tech and has had colleagues / employees who has worked for his company (which make system one used in GP practices). APPARENTLY the culture is weird - they have to write apology emails to the whole office if they make a mistake and if they’re late they have to announce why to the office. Obviously there’s a ridiculously fast staff turnover and very high wages to keep any staff at all. But I was reminded of these schools with the punitive rules, obsessing over minor things - hair and skirt length etc - our kids can’t just chose to leave and move onto the next thing even if they’re treated in a way that’s demeaning or humiliating.
I’m with OP - it’s like a protracted being sent to the headmasters office.

As am I, criminals are getting younger and unfortunately while 9 times out of 10 they'll be someone bleating about why it's not their fault they did what they did things will never change.

As said by a previous poster this behaviour was incredibly rare in past years, I wholly believe that the softly softly approach that's overtaken the 'nip it in the bud' stance has contributed to it.

it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue.

You may be right - I wouldn't care.

If I was like a previous poster, and had a child who was being so brutally bullied that they considered suicide, I'd not give a damn if it had to be done on a daily basis as long as it worked and my child was safe.

That is (I hope) an unusual and rare situation - but similarly, if it allowed other children to enjoy their lessons, and teachers to tech without interruption, then do it.

We are too soft on "minor" transgressions - that's how one day they become major ones.

Keeps the other children safe and allows then to get an education, though.

Why do you keep asking that? Is it to a-ha! people when they don't come up with a magic answer to an age-old problem as if that makes using humiliation acceptable? Because that's nonsense. Something can still be morally wrong, even without an alternative.

And I'm pretty sure you'd argue against any alternative offered anyway.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately the things that work - 1:1 relationship building, parental therapy, mediation, restorative justice, smaller class sizes, trained and qualified SEN/nurture teachers etc etc - all take time, money and resources. Things that our cash-strapped, staff limited schools simply don’t have.

Isolation booths are a quick, ineffective short term fix that solve nothing.

My children adore school, wouldn’t ever want to put a foot wrong as they love learning, love their teachers and love their friends. Schools ARE amazing, but unfortunately we are asking way too much of mainstream schools and teachers (whose main job should be to teach their subject!). They should not be having to do the job of a social worker, which seems to take up so much of their time these days.

Its quite a modern problem as those that repeatedly mucked around in the past would be punished, then expelled and left to fail. Thankfully we don’t just leave kids to fail these days, but I really think mainstream school is the wrong place for children with serious behaviour problems. We need more schools geared up to help children with additional needs. A different kind of school day to the kind my children have (and thrive off!) in mainstream school.

Criminals are getting younger? Where did you get that from? There has always been juvenile crime and bad behaviour.

it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue

But the immediate issue needs addressing, and often the longer-term cause can't be solved by the school anyway, however hard they try.

@Emotionalsupportviper We are too soft on "minor" transgressions - that's how one day they become major ones.

Out of interest, what’s your idea of a minor transgression?

Punishments need to be punishments, if they don't like being in that room then they should have more respect for their fellow students and teachers and not do anything to end up there

I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre.

Newsflash: respect is a two-way street. Perish the thought that parents should teach their kids to respect teachers, eh?

And the bit about teachers 'throwing out punishments left right and centre' is just laughable - bet I can hazard a guess who told you that. 😆

'My children aren't snowflakes by any means'. Of course not.

The crimes that Juveniles are committing, in some case are becoming much worse.

Yes, fist fights were a thing, girls having a bit of hair pulling but to take a knife or any weapon to another human being without thought of the consequences is in my mind unthinkable.