To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

[ballybean]

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

If they don’t want to be humiliated they could always behave. Or is that such an old fashioned concept?

Often the badly behaved kids are also the kids from difficult backgrounds (of course not always) so perhaps the school were doing something for some of their pupil premium kids who also just happen to be some of the bad behaviour kids. They can't be written off and punished all the time. Who knows what the point of the trip was - it could have been for some of the pastoral team to connect with some of the kids who needed it.

On one hand, humiliation and isolation are totally appropriate and normal in schools.
On the other hand, why is there a crisis in children’s mental health and school attendance?

NaughtPoppy

There is virtually no correlation between the children who are placed in isolation and ‘humiliated’ and the children who are absent from school.

School punishments have never been as soft as they are now. This wouldn’t even have made a thread 15 years ago.

Who knows, it might even help the parents to actually do some parenting, too, if they were made to take responsibility for the behaviour of their own child.

Children are at school to learn, so why on earth should the benefit to the majority be trumped by the behaviour of a few? School isn't a place of social containment for children who refuse to behave or just prefer acting stupidly/saying daft things. Nobody has yet come up with a viable reason why those who wish to learn should be prevented from doing so. And saying "but nobody's saying that" whilst criticizing every method used to deal with disruptive kids is just being disingenuous. Teachers are not - repeat not - social workers. And if things continue to go on and behaviour remains unchecked, I hope parents are prepared for the inevitable outcome when there are very few (if any) qualified teachers in post. That day may not be too far off.

Why not lay the blame where it should go? With the parents

Things are a bit different with DC attending nursery from a young age now, but mainly for the first 4/5 years of a DC life most interaction is with their parents, they're are the ones that set the standards of their DC behaviour.

You reap what you sow.

Putting a child is isolation is incredibly outdated regardless of what material the walls are made of.

Please suggest some alternatives. Besides, in my experience, 'isolation' just means sitting getting on with school work in a room with a teacher and almost always at least one other student. Frankly I fail to see what's so traumatic about that. It certainly doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent, given the number of kids who are back in there again and again. No doubt you'll think that begs the question 'Well why use it as a sanction then?'. I ask again: please suggest alternatives.

Your old school sounds like it would have been hell for the students who actually wanted to learn tbh

What's the schools Ofsted rating I wonder? Because all DfE guidance says suspensions should be a last resort so teachers don't really have much choice of what to do with really disruptive pupils.
Teachers can't win, parents don't want to take any responsibility for the misbehaviour of their offspring and the good kids suffer.

Not in classes the size of those in UK schools you can't.

There isn't the money, time, staff or space.

Many others disruptive ones aren't from deprived backgrounds either - a lotto them are entitled little sh!ts who have been indulged all of their lives - children of professional parents who just want their child to be "happy" and "express themselves", and blame the teacher for letting them "get bored" (that's what makes them so disruptive: their intelligence and creativity are being stifled).

They complain about any attempt at discipline then go down the teachers' necks when their little snowflake's exam results are appalling.

I work in UK schools! It depends on the ethos of the school.

Can't disagree that some of the bad behaviour is from richer kids though!

It doesn't only depend on the ethos of the school. It depends on staffing levels as well.

What is ‘humiliating’ about facing a consequence for rude / defiant / disruptive behaviour? To me, humiliation of a child is laughing at their additional need in front of others, or need to go to the toilet, or their lack of ability. It is not humiliation to put a misbehaving student in a room with a glass window. So what if people see them? Did people not see them when they were misbehaving in class? Did they not make a choice to behave as they did? I’m really quite sick of people not clamping down on poor behaviour that disrupts the learning of every other student and you’re here wanting to make sanctions as comfortable as possible! Perhaps the shame of acting like a bloody idiot might make them think twice?

Secondary teacher here - the kind of kids who end up in there won’t feel humiliated, they will love looking ‘bad’ and think it’s funny.

Isolation booths (isolation at all) wasn’t even a thing when I was at school in the 90s.
The discipline at my son’s school is absolutely crazy and he’s had isolation for things that wouldn’t have even been a detention when I was his age.

Isolation booths (isolation at all) wasn’t even a thing when I was at school in the 90s.

From my experience, most schools don't have booths, they just have a normal room.

I think it's humiliating for them. They aren't put there because they are a danger. They are put there if messing in class, distracting others etc

You've got a worryingly low bar if you think that being dangerous is the only reason a student should be removed from a class. Do you not care that other students' education is constantly disrupted by disruptive kids?

It's not either / or. You can work with a child on their behaviour without harsh punishment without causing trouble for the other children in the class.

What's so harsh about sitting in another room to do your work for a day?

If that's what it was it would be a whole different matter. Sitting in a glass room in the middle of a hall on shoe is quite another. Or as the schools I know do, sitting in a booth on your own with no contact with another human from 9 til 3 is pretty inhuman too.

Or as the schools I know do, sitting in a booth on your own with no contact with another human from 9 til 3 is pretty inhuman too.

• *I totally agree. Is that honestly what happens? I've worked in quite a lot of schools and know many teachers in other schools, and I've never heard of that happening. No contact even with a teacher or pastoral staff? Not even at break or lunch time? That's really not on.

There are plenty of jobs where you are on your own for extended hours - car park attendant, lorry driver, security guard . I've never thought of any of those professions as being inhuman - at the end of your shift, you go home to your family and meet up with friends. If they are overstimulated and kicking off maybe somewhere quiet is a good idea.

Of course it doesn't happen. They're just kept out of the lessons they're disrupting.

There are plenty of jobs where you are on your own for extended hours - car park attendant, lorry driver, security guard . I've never thought of any of those professions as being inhuman - at the end of your shift, you go home to your family and meet up with friends. If they are overstimulated and kicking off maybe somewhere quiet is a good idea.

Yes, it's definitely a good idea, but not literally all day without human contact (I do find it hard to believe that happens tbh).

In any case, the comparison with solo jobs is not a good one. Kids are not the same as adults. And the adults have chosen to do a job that will involve being alone for long periods.

Disciplin in General seems non existent in some families.

I definitely don't see putting someone in isolation as humiliating, if it were repeat offending wouldn't be a thing.