to disagree with gender ideology/pronouns

[changednameforthiss]

Genuinely don't understand why this is a controversial statement, but somehow we're so far removed from truth and reality, and saying there are no more than 2 genders is enough to get you fired from your job and cancelled forever.

I believe in man and woman as science dictates, and that's it. Why is that hateful? I am not hating PEOPLE for stating this, because I simultaneously believe in the idea that any adult should 100% have the ability and right to freely express themselves in ways that feel congruent with their inner. I also believe people can medically transition to appear as a woman/male if they deal with actual gender dysphoria i.e. genuinely loathe of the sex they were born it; and I believe people have the right to perceive themselves as a woman/man . However, that does not make you the opposite sex. This is a perception, i.e. it is subjective...

So if someone does not want to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns, it is rude at best, but it's certainly not criminal as many people try to make it now. Personally, I will call you by your preferred pronouns because I think it's just good manners, but I honestly don't think it's the truth and I don't think anyone is what their biology (thus hormones) would reject. But we are allowing this to happen and the topic of gender ideology is impacting and in some cases damaging our children who have to deal with adult topics they are wayyyyyy too young to comprehend, as well as women's safety by opening doors for biological men into women's spaces that should not be opened. This is a big problem!

Why is this so controversial? Can we not respect everyone and their right to self-expression and femininity/masculinity across sexes without changing our vocabulary to affirm people's self-perceptions as well as rejecting biology?

If you think I'm hateful, I beg of you please explain why because I'm not getting this and it's driving me insane.

Language matters. It has social and legal implications.

Quite frankly it's abusive to have a family member insist they call you by a different sex.

Your own ability to relate to others is affected.

When someone asks you if you have a brother or sister they are trying to relate to you.

If you reply you have a sister when the reality of your child hood was you had a brother, it affects your ability to relate. You didn't have those arguments sisters had as children. You didn't have the same comparisons made. You had a totally different experience.

So you aren't just calling them a different name. You are reinventing your whole life into a fantasy that didn't exist.

That's not respectful of you. That's owning and controlling you.

And there are plenty of other ways the same point applies.

A man standing up and talking on behalf of women and women's experiences is frankly cringeworthy. Why accept it cos they've stuck on a dress and swear blind they are a woman?

The socialisation of men who transition later absolutely does matter.

If you can't see and understand that, that's not my problem. But it IS my problem in terms of how these men affect my life more generally.

A change of language has impact. If you can't see sex you can't see sexism.

Languages which don't have pronouns have cultures which are more sexist in nature.

It is harder to describe and explain sexism if these words do not exist.

Gender neutral language does not stop sexism for this reason. It increases it. It inhibits the life experiences of women from being visible and expressed. Why? Because gender neutral language defaults to default human which, unfortunately for women, isnt them.

I highly recommend 'Invisible Women' by Caroline Criado-Perez to anyone who doesn't understand how the concept of 'default male' occurs and why it is important for women to have constant visibility and not defer in a passive way to be second class citizens to ken who tell them it's not polite to refuse to use changed pronouns. These men are sexist. Women who do the reverse are trying to escape sexism by enforcing it on others and making out that you can opt out of sexism, which unfortunately for them is a load of all bollocks (as the book above explains well).

I'm done with 'being kind' when it takes us back to the 1950s in terms of sexist stereotypes and inhibits the ability of women to express their own true selves and have their own lived experiences. Why on earth are we deferring to males once again when we already have this uphill battle.

I'm also well past the emotional blackmail of people going on about their poor trans relative. That same trans relative who doesn't give a shit about women.

Not to mention sick and disabled women who are being denied the option of female only care because of how men 'identify'.

This. I had a stay in a women's only ward in hospital and somebody was kicking off because they weren't allowed to stay in it. Security were called. Not only was it distressing for everyone in the ward but it interrupted the care everyone was receiving as most of the staff were dealing with this.

YANBU

Lols at your despair of the human race’s unwillingness to evolve!! Just grow another sex, goddammit!! 🤣
Sorry you don’t like facts. That must be very distressing

And? You think because it’s only a small number of men, women need to shift over for them? Why should a male, no matter his identity, have any impact on women and our spaces?

Except is does affect us, and you know it. If it didn’t, no one would care. You can stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to women as much as you like, but it won’t make us magically vanish.

Errrr yes it has affected me directly.

Why are you talking over me and telling me my actual experience in life hasn't happened and isn't relevant?

Why are you telling women who were told by the head of a rape charity, that they should reframe their trauma otherwise they are on their own and aren't deserving of support?

Why are you telling women in prison who have had to cope with male prisoners that there's no problem?

Just cos it's not impacted you personally doesn't give you the right to throw women under the bus so you can stand up and feel proud of 'being kind'. How the fuck have you been kind to the likes of the above mentioned women?

Get over yourself and your desire to virtue signal and consider others. Oh no. Not those male others you defer to but those female others you think you are better than in your own self righteous opinion.

😃I also assumed recently peaked and new to MN. The innocence in the post probably means they are a good couple of years behind many of us, and even longer than a lot.

I'm not GC, I don't have a problem with it and think that calling people what they want to be called is just polite, really.

But as a grammer pedant, I do struggle to refer to a single person as "they". It feels as unnatural as trying to write with my left hand instead of my right.

Not unreasonable. Nothing will ever compel me to utter that a man can be a woman. Calling this hate is an attempt to force people into a particular ideological position. It’s abominable.

99% of logical, sane people feel the same OP. Surely you have noticed MN is fiercely (and rightly) gender critical? Everybody knows the truth and we all need to keep pushing back against this dangerous ideology. Get yourself over to the feminist boards you'll be in good company 👍

Please explain how this is transphobic, I'm asking with genuine curiosity and willingness to listen.

In response, gender identity indeed DOES affect me as a woman for reasons stated by many users in this threat (toilets, changing rooms, prisons, children etc). I will respect everyone but why must we lie and call women males or males women to make them feel better? In my opinion that erases the meaning of true biology - and studies show this is why people are less and less open to this ideology and movement, even people previously being very open to it.

Sense of self-worth is being filled with these gender terms instead of truly just accepting our differences in temperament/masculinity/femininity etc.
What is the difference really between gender and personality, I wonder?

I always find it instructive how the lived experiences of males is highly valued and unquestionably yet the lived experiences of women can be ignored or derided as unacceptable or not reflective of life.

It's almost as if....

... I can't quite think of the words.

When they spout a pile of nonsense like this, they always have “ a close family member who is trans”.

Always.

I am haha, I've only made a post about feeding before and didn't know there was an entire section dedicated to this topic, apologies! And yes, I am in my 20s with 2 kids and have yet to find anyone apart from my partner who agrees with me. So it's incredibly refreshing to see the responses to this post.

You see, I feel exactly the same calling a he a she.

Welcome 🤗

This is where I started, I’m now well down the rabbit hole x

Oh, I am so exhausted with having to prove to people like you that a person who I love deserves the right to exist! No matter what I tell you or how many studies I make reference to, you'll still ignore them and demand that my loved one and the family members of other people conform to your definition of what they should be based on your narrow perception of how human beings are formed. Why can't you just let trans people exist? Why are you so desperate to force the person I love into hiding and misery because you want them to confirm to your idea of biological perfection? The answer to your question is actually irrelevant anyway. My loved one is a particular gender despite their biology because gender is a social construct just like religion and they deserve the right to decide how they want to live just the same as any other human being.

Other peoples 'gender identity' shouldnt affect anyone. It should just be one facet of their character.

But yet, as other posters have described.... it's people who try to replace sex by 'gender' who cause the problems that have been described, which definitely do affect others particularly girls and women.

Exactly my point! Religion is also a social construct and most reasonable people agree that people should be allowed to follow the belief system which is right for them. Most reasonable people would not accept or condone the persecution of a group of people for their religion so why are they seeking the persecution of trans people?

No matter what I tell you or how many studies I make reference to, you'll still ignore them

Try us - what's the studies? From what I know, this entire ideology is based on studies such as Jon Money's revolting twin experiment, so would love to know what studies you know that I don't (genuinely asking)!

Also, no one is disputing anyone's right to exist. We're disputing the language and the doors it opens which create danger.

There are boards for this. Can you go there?

I don't see why it's in AIBU either.

Oh, I am so exhausted with having to prove to people like you that a person who I love deserves the right to exist! No matter what I tell you or how many studies I make reference to, you'll still ignore them and demand that my loved one and the family members of other people conform to your definition of what they should be based on your narrow perception of how human beings are formed.

Amd we're all exhausted with this kind of hyperbole. Absolutely no one is saying your relative doesn't 'deserve the right to exist'

We are saying, simply, that we are not going to pretend they are the opposite sex and thus have rights to sex-specific spaces and services that don't belong to them.

However your relative wants to dress, act, express themselves, spend their time - no one has an issue with any of that. I wish them the very best.