to disagree with gender ideology/pronouns

[changednameforthiss]

Genuinely don't understand why this is a controversial statement, but somehow we're so far removed from truth and reality, and saying there are no more than 2 genders is enough to get you fired from your job and cancelled forever.

I believe in man and woman as science dictates, and that's it. Why is that hateful? I am not hating PEOPLE for stating this, because I simultaneously believe in the idea that any adult should 100% have the ability and right to freely express themselves in ways that feel congruent with their inner. I also believe people can medically transition to appear as a woman/male if they deal with actual gender dysphoria i.e. genuinely loathe of the sex they were born it; and I believe people have the right to perceive themselves as a woman/man . However, that does not make you the opposite sex. This is a perception, i.e. it is subjective...

So if someone does not want to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns, it is rude at best, but it's certainly not criminal as many people try to make it now. Personally, I will call you by your preferred pronouns because I think it's just good manners, but I honestly don't think it's the truth and I don't think anyone is what their biology (thus hormones) would reject. But we are allowing this to happen and the topic of gender ideology is impacting and in some cases damaging our children who have to deal with adult topics they are wayyyyyy too young to comprehend, as well as women's safety by opening doors for biological men into women's spaces that should not be opened. This is a big problem!

Why is this so controversial? Can we not respect everyone and their right to self-expression and femininity/masculinity across sexes without changing our vocabulary to affirm people's self-perceptions as well as rejecting biology?

If you think I'm hateful, I beg of you please explain why because I'm not getting this and it's driving me insane.

Btw, no one needs to do anything to 'transition', that's the whole point of Self ID. No hormones, no surgeries, nothing. They are literally still male with their cock and balls.

The world can identify as a horse doesnt mean they are one

I can't think of any other feelings, identities or personal preferences that are remotely considered to be an innate, genetic, baked-in, pre-determined indisputable fact.

You have every right to make your own way in society and your own choices as to how you want to dress/present, in order to become the 'you' that you want to be. But these are choices for you; and other people will make different choices for them - and how they see the world - which are every bit as valid.

Ask any midwife , other HCP or geneticist if they could categorically, confidently and indisputably explain to you genetically which new-born babies are going to be vegan, a Hindu, a Conservative-voter, a metal fan, a West Ham supporter, a petrol-head, a fan of Mrs Brown's Boys, passionate about knitting, somebody who will only ever buy Farrow & Ball paint and no other brands, a geography teacher, a world traveller, a Mumsnetter, a keen park-runner, somebody who prefers artificial flowers to fresh-cut ones, a die-hard Apple loyalist who wouldn't have an Android product if they could be had for a penny, a fashionista, a lover of poetry............ All things that are hugely significant for a great many people and, often, markers by which they define their lives, their identities and how they carve out their place in society.

However, ask them if they can identify which of the new-born babies are female and which are male and they can tell you with certainty within seconds what he/she is now and will be until the day he/she dies - and even then clearly so for thousands of years if future archaeologists dig up and examine his/her bones.

I'm just here for the announcement of the third gamete.

History in the making, how exciting 😁

So if someone does not want to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns, it is rude at best, but it's certainly not criminal as many people try to make it now.

There is no such thing as polite pronouns or respectful use of pronouns.

The converse implication is that if you don't use them, you are rude and nasty. That's coercive. That's socially manipulative.

Pronouns changes are not respectful to the opposite sex. They are actively harmful to certain groups. Most notably homosexual women or women from certain religious backgrounds.

Why should someone use pronouns which actively go against their own interests and harm them? And show no respect to them in return?

Being a woman (or a man) is not a feeling in your head. Women face discrimination due to their sex not the feelings in their head.

A man telling a woman she MUST refer to him as female is the ultimate in disrespect. It's about power and control over women. It's a men's rights movement which shits all over women.

It isn't respectful to women and it isn't polite to women and it uses the worse types of emotional blackmail and coercive control to force people to use opposite sex pronouns.

Identity isn't just about individuals. We also have collective and relational identities which are also important.

When someone tells you, you can no longer define yourself by your own sex and exclude the opposite sex from your own identity that says a lot about respect and a lot about how they want to control you.

Most notably this trend is overwhelmingly one directional with efforts to erase the word woman but not nearly as much time and effort applied to erasing the word man.

Why is that?

Tilts head.

Yabu to put this in aibu when there's a whole topic for this.

If I say "That fuckwit Keith has parked across the driveway again!"

Then Keith will likely find this description of himself rather offensive

Just because Keith may not consider himself to be a fuckwit doesn't mean that he isn't one

Are we not within our rights to describe Keith as we see fit?

If Keith is triggered into a meltdown because others think he is a fuckwit

Is that not Keith's issue to come to terms with?

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The 'unwillingness to grow', @Crispsandcola, is because we have pisstakers, fetishists and frankly dangerous men who abuse the idea of self identity to annoy, harrass, assault women or get whatever they want. From rapists 'identifying as women' to be put in womens prisons to those Spanish army dudes who are now legally 'women' to enjoy higher pensions and other benefits that were put into place to compensate women for discrimination based on their sex. Who btw are now being sued by the Spanish Stonewall for self id-ing as women.

So no, men cannot become women and the whole idea of being legally a woman whilst being a man needs to go into the bin.

embracing the expression of gender identity does not mean rejecting biological sex.

If you're only exposed to moral panics online, you might assume it's real life. But in reality that's not how it functions in the real world. It just means it becomes more socially acceptable for people to dress differently and try different things. Which i atleast view as a good thing.
It doesn't erase bio-sex in any way.

Hope this helps.

I'll be honest.

One of my issues with this movement is that it seems to be placed above the rights and needs of biological woman.

I used to work somewhere that decided to introduce gender neutral toilets. The men's toilets remained as they were. ALL of the women's toilets became gender neutral. About a week later they reverted to their original state, probably because there was no consultation.

I have a lot of women's health issues that effect my daily life, wellbeing, and sometimes ability to go about my normal activities. I do find it kind of insulting to be told I must accept that somebody who is completely incapable of developing the things that I am holds a place that is equal to myself. What also frustrates me is there is no proper treatment or cure for these conditions, limited research, and I can't help but feel like the money spent helping people to transition could be divided up and used for this.

The rates of people that choose to transition BACK and say "why didn't doctors stop me" is very high.

If a man wants to be called a woman, whatever. But it shouldn't have any impact on biological women. It does, and that is the problem, and is the reason people have their gripes with the trans movement. In some areas it is cancelling out the rights of biological women.

I have met some really lovely transwomen that have shared similar frustrations and agreed that this take tars everyone with the same brush. They have recognised biological women as biological women and themselves as transwomen, and been called all sorts of names in response, within their own community.

If there are more than two sexes, what is the third (and so forth) gamete? There is sperm, there is egg. So what is the third gamete?

It's probably easier to find the Higgs Boson than these mythical third, fourth and so on gametes.

@Baghera What is an edgelord please? This has passed me completely!

It is, yes.

The Higgs was found about 10 years ago. Still waiting for the Spegg.

Off you pop to the feminism board…..

It might help more if it were true.

Well I'm unable to remain silent too.

Your brother can believe whatever he likes about himself but there are only two sexes.

It is not kind to help someone be delusional though.

Woman - born not worn

😂 brilliant

That toilet situation does sound poorly planned and like it'd only have worked if it was built into the building in the first place (like disabled toilets.)
i assume they chose the womens to be gender neutral as it was easier to change the signs on the bathrooms that already had stalls than build new ones in the mens that were more geared towards urinals.

"I do find it kind of insulting to be told I must accept that somebody who is completely incapable of developing the things that I am holds a place that is equal to myself."
Im not sure i understand this statement as a woman. Because i dont see how someone having different biology would make them less equal.

The rate of de-transitioners is significantly higher in FTM teenagers than MTF.
I assume because a lot of young girls feel the need to rebel against what is expected of women. And young boys would be punished much more harshly for going against the status quo.
The percentage of trans people as a whole in the UK makes up less than 1% of the population. So its hard to see it affecting the majority when they are a minority in my opinion.

*It is, yes.

The Higgs was found about 10 years ago. Still waiting for the Spegg.*

Maybe we need to build a better and more powerful particle accelerator?

If you think I'm hateful, I beg of you please explain why because I'm not getting this and it's driving me insane. Then you need to see a therapist and work through these issues. You seem disproportionately distressed by them.

do find it kind of insulting to be told I must accept that somebody who is completely incapable of developing the things that I am holds a place that is equal to myself."
Im not sure i understand this statement as a woman. Because i dont see how someone having different biology would make them less equal.

Because they are physically incapable of developing the women's health issues that I have which are a significant part of my experience as a woman. A shit experience, but my experience. If they could develop my (common!) issues, they'd probably u-turn on their choices

@Crispsandcola

How does it hurt you to be kind to another person by addressing them in a way that makes them feel comfortable and respected?

Dismayed to hear people will feel uncomfortable and disrespected if addressed as "you." What do you suggest would best acknowledge their extra special status? "Thee"?

If only that was true. It may be for some. Better perhaps would just to be a gender nonconforming person without it having to be a huge element of one's 'identity'! (Which is of course what a lot of gender critical people do)
But we do see children being sold the terrible lie that they're 'in the wrong body' and need to 'transition to the opposite sex' (impossible). We see males rejecting their biological sex and insisting on being allowed in female sports etc.

We see males rejecting their biological sex and insisting on being allowed in female sports etc.

And women's spaces like prisons, shelters and services like rape counselling. Not to mention sick and disabled women who are being denied the option of female only care because of how men 'identify'.

Of course there are many, privileged women out there who don't need to worry about any of these things, but please spare a thought for the women who do. It is the most vulnerable who are being impacted most by the demands that men be treated as women if they want to be.