to disagree with gender ideology/pronouns

[changednameforthiss]

Genuinely don't understand why this is a controversial statement, but somehow we're so far removed from truth and reality, and saying there are no more than 2 genders is enough to get you fired from your job and cancelled forever.

I believe in man and woman as science dictates, and that's it. Why is that hateful? I am not hating PEOPLE for stating this, because I simultaneously believe in the idea that any adult should 100% have the ability and right to freely express themselves in ways that feel congruent with their inner. I also believe people can medically transition to appear as a woman/male if they deal with actual gender dysphoria i.e. genuinely loathe of the sex they were born it; and I believe people have the right to perceive themselves as a woman/man . However, that does not make you the opposite sex. This is a perception, i.e. it is subjective...

So if someone does not want to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns, it is rude at best, but it's certainly not criminal as many people try to make it now. Personally, I will call you by your preferred pronouns because I think it's just good manners, but I honestly don't think it's the truth and I don't think anyone is what their biology (thus hormones) would reject. But we are allowing this to happen and the topic of gender ideology is impacting and in some cases damaging our children who have to deal with adult topics they are wayyyyyy too young to comprehend, as well as women's safety by opening doors for biological men into women's spaces that should not be opened. This is a big problem!

Why is this so controversial? Can we not respect everyone and their right to self-expression and femininity/masculinity across sexes without changing our vocabulary to affirm people's self-perceptions as well as rejecting biology?

If you think I'm hateful, I beg of you please explain why because I'm not getting this and it's driving me insane.

Agree. Shocking behaviour from the NHS

I will call anyone what they want me to call them. Jenny, Dave, whatever.

i think they can present themselves to world as whatever gender they want and ill
call them their preferred name.

they cannot make me believe they have changed sex, because it's not possible.

Correctly sexing a baby is a neutral act

Correctly sexing a baby can actually be life saving. When my children were born, a bloodtest was done that tests for 27 metabolic diseases. Some of these diseases are treatable or different based on the sex of the baby. For example one disease can be treated for boys ( but not girls where the disease is very mild, but life threatening for boys).

I just do not understand people who keep saying sex doesn't matter. Just wait until you or your loved ones have a disease that is sex specific.

Totally agree.

so not only can men who say they are women “breastfeed”, they can do it better than actual women.

Women who often struggle to BF despite a woeful lack of support but battle on to do their best for their baby. What a kick in the teeth that must be.

Women who (like me) couldn’t BF due to lack of support, or for health reasons ,or just did not want to who get bashed and criticised for not BF. A kick in the teeth for them too.

tell me again how trans rights activism isn’t at best a misogynistic and at worst a fetishistic movement

It’s like an Trans AI response. Again, nobody says that anybody doesn’t exist. They are saying that a man cannot be a woman and should not be able to access women’s spaces.

This kind of hyper emotional response, the claim that any discussion on this question is a form of hatred or a denial of someone’s humanity, is actually a form of bullying and aggression.

@Crispsandcola why do you keep copying and pasting the same post repeatedly to different posters? I think we all get it - are you OK?

Did you deliberately miss the parts where I said they should be allowed to live free from hate and dress and call themselves what they choose?

Please don't misquote me and make false assumptions. When you do this you are part of the problem.

You don't get to force the rest of us to accept biological men as women.

https://www.thestranger.com/the-queer-issue/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

First paragraph: "And yeah, I kind of got off on it. Don't judge."

Indeed a fetishistic movement. Tell me how this man is not in jail? Mortified if anyone disagrees.

Thank you for repeated demonstration of the tactics used by posters who seem to not be able to engage with the topic at hand. It is very useful for posters who are reading along.

Just to repeat what I think has been said numerous times already on this thread, I don't believe one person has posted that your brother does not have the 'right to exist' and has 'no right to be happy'.

This is a straw man fallacy.

The 'definition' of what your brother 'is', is a male person. This is a statement of material reality.

Your accusation of "it says a lot about your moral compass" is a tactic drawing on your framing of anyone who doesn't believe your philosophical belief is to be vilified and demonised as not having a 'moral compass'. This is a tactic of polarisation. An 'us' and 'them' proposition from an absolutist.

"they won't be forced into a miserable existence or even death as long as I have breath in my body". It is great that you are very protective of your brother. However, this remains as it has been referred to numerous times, emotional manipulation and hyperbole. Based on catastrophising.

By all means. Continue to post this on repeat, I think the best way to deal with that is to point out your tactics for others who see the posts and wonder about it.

Disgusting.

It also shows how contradictory and self-defeating the trans movement is. On the one hand, they claim that whether you are a woman has nothing to do with your biology - it’s in your soul. Yet they always want the physical attributes of womanhood. Some even take drugs to simulate period pain.

I think there are trans people who are genuinely conflicted about who they are and deserve sympathy and consideration (although that doesn’t mean they are a woman of course). But the movement has also become a Trojan horse for dangerous creeps and we need to point this out too.

Stop spamming this thread FFS. 🙄

I think they may secretly be gc, all the spamming is keeping the thread active

😆 Good point!

Baroness I wondered if it was a display of the tactics that some people use to coerce their family into prioritising their philosophical belief over material reality.

It really does seem to be a display of refusing to engage but wanting to shame anyone who is non-compliant. They really don't seem to be able to comprehend how this looks to others. Operation : Let them speak is going very well.

@Crispsandcola are you okay? Or is copying/pasting/spamming your usual posting style?

This. Great post.

On this thread you can clearly see the emotional manipulation, hyperbole and feet stamping because women won't just all roll over to the demands of these men

It's like being in an abusive relationship.
You can see the gaslighting and DARVO.

stonewall is a leading charity supporting LGBT youth and I wager they know and understand a hella lot more about homophobia than you

Stonewall refuse to define lesbians as same sex attracted females in case it upsets the male fetishists.

How is pushing the narrative that a man can be a lesbian and that lesbians are sexual racists for not wanting to have sex with someone with a penis, not blatant homophobia?

Can any of the gender defenders explain WHY this particular subset of males should suddenly and without question, be entirely exempt from all social rules, laws, and safeguarding procedures, that every other man has to follow, based on nothing but their say so?

What is it about their completely subjective feelings that entitle them to this privileged access that doesn't apply to all men?

Why do we have female only spaces in the first place and why is the comfort of a man not wanting to share spaces with other men pandered to at the expense of women who need their spaces to be free from men?

My loved one is a particular gender despite their biology because gender is a social construct just like religion and they deserve the right to decide how they want to live just the same as any other human being

We are not compelled to go along with any other religion, the protected characteristic of religion and belief protects non believers too, so why is it a requirement of gender ideology that everyone else must go along with it's doctrine or use it's language?

Their belief in 'gender' does not entitle them to access spaces meant for the opposite sex.

I don't have pretend to believe in god in case it upsets my religious friends or colleagues, so why should I have to pretend a man is magically a woman because he claims to be one?

Youll believe what you want to believe no matter what, but kids still end up trans without any external imput. Its clearly internal

It's entirely psychological. For most teens it will be a maladaptive coping mechanism for whatever trauma or co morbid mental health issues they are suffering from which have caused them to dissociate from their body.
These children are mostly female.

Completely different to sexually motivated adult male transvestites.
Yet they are bizarrely, and deliberately, lumped in the same category.

but you are denying their right to exist

Imagine your 'identity' being so fragile that it only exists when other people play along.

Trans people already have the same rights as everyone else. With extra protections.

What rights do trans people not have?

Because what they are actually demanding is that society changes it's entire social structure and sex based laws and language, regardless of how it affects the rights of anyone else, but especially women, just to accommodate their poor mental health or lifestyle choices.

They want a subset of men to be exempt from laws and rules relating to their sex class.

Since when did it become a 'human right' for some men to have access to any and all spaces where women and girls are at their most vulnerable?

Er, what? I ask for evidence of more than 2 sexes and you start crying claiming I think your relative doesn't exist? I ask again, what?

What is this other sex your relative is and why on earth hasn't the medical world made a big deal out of this person being born not male or female?

What does this mean?
people conform to your definition of what they should be based on your narrow perception of how human beings are formed.

Can you quote me where I'm doing this?
Why are you so desperate to force the person I love into hiding and misery because you want them to confirm to your idea of biological perfection?

'If someone wants to pretend that they're a member of the opposite sex, thats fine, up to them. If they want me to pretend that they're a member of the opposite sex - No, because I wont be coerced to lie.'

This. I wouldn't be rude to anyone regardless of how they dress but I won't be told I have to go along with their beliefs.

nobody cares what you believe about who someone else is - you are free to be as ignorant, narrow minded and hateful as you please - as long as you keep your thoughts to yourself. it’s not hard, it’s a basic principle of living amongst other humans. for example, I might think my neighbour is stupid and ugly, nobody can force me to believe otherwise, doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me to put my feelings about this out there

missed this bit sorry. Actually people don’t have to keep their thoughts based on their lawfully held opinions to themselves. They are actually allowed to express and manifest it in a reasonable way. You can openly call your neighbour stupid and ugly if you want - it might be unpleasant and hurtful but there’s not much he can do about it. Same as I can call a TW a man in lipstick and a dress. No one had a right not to be hurt or offended.

'it’s not hard, it’s a basic principle of living amongst other humans. for example, I might think my neighbour is stupid and ugly, nobody can force me to believe otherwise, doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me to put my feelings about this out there'

Yes but if your 'stupid amd ugly' neighbour kept telling you that you must call them beautiful and clever or else they'd call the cops you may well start getting sick of it.

Your very post defines women as wearing make up and skirts and men in trousers.

These stereotypes need to go.

@RatatouillePie yes that's what gender critical people believe. But acknowledging that stereotypes like "women wear make up and high heels" exist, is not the same as defining women by these things. Defining men and women by clothes or other stereotypes is what gender ideology is based on.