To feel sorry for the Tories?

[User135644]

The Conservative Party are a British institution. The most successful political party in the democratic world. They're going through a bad time at the moment and have been dealt a bad hand. They inherited a global financial crash which the western world is still to recover from and then a once in a lifetime pandemic which has further crippled the economy. Now there's wars in Gaza and Ukraine. Really unfortunate circumstances for them to operate in.

It looks like they're going to get a really bloody nose in the next election. Starmer has taken the centre ground and now Reform are starting to steal their MPs as well as voters. Now even their biggest donor is caught up in a scandal. When it rains it pours.

How can they recover from this? Can they recover from this?

The Tories are the great survivors but it's hard to see how they can win the next election, or maybe even the one after that.

@GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight

"Compared to the incompetent shambles we've got at the minute?!"

I'm not disputing that the current Government is an incompetent shambles - the question is what if the next Government is worse?

At every election voters base their decision on "well they can't be any worse than the current incompetent Government" and across all parties they are.

I remember people saying exactly the same about the Gordon Brown Govt in 2010 which was infinitely better than the Brexit fuck up we had under Cameron.

The issue I have with Labour is that they don't appear to have a clear vision or policies or a plan forward other than "we're not the conservatives".

Worse? You think they might be worse? Even equivalence would feel like a bloody reprieve from this collection of charlatans. Bring it on ASAP.

The Brexit fuck-up under Cameron wasn't the next govt after Gordon Brown, that was the Coalition till 2015. Then it was Cameron and Brexit. Then we had Theresa May and people said 'things can't get any worse' and then we got Johnson. Then people said 'things can't get any worse' and we got Truss.

And things really couldn't get any worse than that. Sunak is a binfire, but he's not Truss. And that shows that things can improve. He did reverse her batshit tax cuts. And Starmer is better than Sunak.

cod you explain exactly what is better now that Brexit has been “achieved”?! 😂

I think if you know anyone in education they’ll soon tell you how hated and reviled Gove and his “reforms” have been. Our education system is in ruins.

The Tories have raped and pillaged this country for 14 years to line their own pockets. It’s a national disgrace. Now watch the rats as they desert the sinking ship….

child poverty is at its highest ever level. Homelessness is up. Wages in real terms are lower than in 2008. NHS waiting lists are obscene. Local authorities are declaring bankruptcy and unable to fulfil their basic statutory care functions. Children with special educational needs are being failed right, left and centre. Teachers leaving their profession in droves. Cost of living means working people are accessing food banks and choosing between heating and eating. Truss wiping £30bn off the economy in one fell swoop.

but that £10 billion spunked in useless PPE was fine yes? And Boris et al partying with coke and champers while people died alone in hospital. You have a short and rose-tinted memory. You think multi-millionaire Sunak gives a shit about you? Nope.

The OP doesn't feel sorry for them, they are just winding everyone up

@1dayatatime

I'm not disputing that the current Government is an incompetent shambles - the question is what if the next Government is worse?

How will we ever know if they don't even get given a chance though?!
Things can only change for the better if we're prepared to embrace change.
Not pootle along doing more of the same thing and then wondering why everything's still shit and falling to pieces.

@GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight

"Things can only change for the better if we're prepared to embrace change"

That is exactly the point- voters will never embrace the change required for long term benefit because of the short term,selfish and vested and vocal interests of certain groups.

For example it would be highly beneficial to the economy and population as a whole if house building rapidly increased leading to an overall lower (or at least not increasing) house prices. Why because rather than spending a large proportion of your income on a mortgage for a non productive asset you could either spend it (creating jobs) or invest it (pensions etc) creating investments in the wider economy.

However anyone with a house would object to this either on it spoiling their view or on a wider basis reducing house prices.

The state pension under triple lock is unaffordable because of an aging population but it would be electoral suicide to suggest this.

The NHS equally is in need of reform but it has become an electoral sacred cow.

It all reminds me of the quote by Alexander Tytler in the late 1700s:

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy"

It swings in roundabouts. Labour may win the next GE and possibly be in government for ten years , before the Conservatives get back into power.
It just goes round in circles.

I completely agree. My concern though is that things get progressively worse on each turn of the round about because politicians will always go for policies that get them elected rather than what is best for the country.

For example alcohol costs the NHS and economy £27 billion a year but taxes on alcohol only raise £12 billion. So in pure economic terms the tax on alcohol should be at least doubled.

But no political party would ever have such a policy because it would be electoral suicide

There will be fewer Portillo moments this year... because most of the Tory bigwigs are jumping before they get the boot!

The thing is wouldn’t that kill hospitality ? Pubs , restaurants, clubs?
Th mink how many people are employed when it comes to alcohol and the supply chains

Hardly unreasonable - they've trashed the country.

The most successful party? Are you on glue?

This national service shit is to appeal to the more right wing voters. It's a sad desperate measure. I don't think there's anyone left to advise the Tories. They have probably all left the building!

Depends how you measure success!

I agree absoloutely. I have no sympathy for the Tories - they don't have any for anyone else, do they?

It seems a bit gimmicky. An appeal to the begrudging old farts who have convinced themselves they lived through the Blitz. I am an old fart myself btw!

A lot of young men and women have conceived a deep hatred for the Tories and their billionaire handlers. Is training them to use lethal weapons a great idea? I'm guessing we'll never know.

Yeah and if they wanted it that much, they’ve had 14 years to implement it. Gimmick.

I felt more sorry for the Lib Dems with the kicking they got after the coalition government. People expected too much from the junior partner in the coalition, and they did rein in the Tories a little.

The Tories right now are in a situation of their own making, regardless of the global situation. I hope they do sort themselves out, as despite being a Labour a supporter, I fully believe there needs to be a strong opposition. i also firmly believe in PR and a less adversarial system, too much short termism currently as only the next five years matters.

I quite like Rishi, but the day the Tories become a minority party I'll be laughing all the way to the next election.

It is also true that we live, theoretically at least, in a democracy, not a one party state.

I honestly can’t believe that anyone in the Conservative Party truly believes this is a good idea- I’m amazed Sunak himself thinks it’s a good idea.

It’s a certain way of getting the young voters to them unelectable. I’d imagine most if not all young people would be against this.

Maybe Sunak just wants putting out this misery ( hence the July election) and wants out of government. And so has come up with this absurd idea.

He must know by now that the party is pretty much unelectable. He’s not that naive surely?

Maybe Sunak is planning for his next job now as we speak , not that he needs the money.

Indeed. It's so inconsiderate of Gove, Raab and Leadsom to deprive us of that pleasure.

The sheer number of Tory MPs resigning is astounding. So many! Clearly they were only interested in the salary and ‘prestige’ and had no interest in serving their community. The scale of the resignations is very revealing about the types who pursue those roles

Some form of National Service might not be a bad idea necessarily. If they'd announced this 2 years ago and it was properly costed it wouldn't seem such a cheap stunt. But that's all it is. Shoring up the OAP vote to avoid annihilation.