To feel sorry for the Tories?

[User135644]

The Conservative Party are a British institution. The most successful political party in the democratic world. They're going through a bad time at the moment and have been dealt a bad hand. They inherited a global financial crash which the western world is still to recover from and then a once in a lifetime pandemic which has further crippled the economy. Now there's wars in Gaza and Ukraine. Really unfortunate circumstances for them to operate in.

It looks like they're going to get a really bloody nose in the next election. Starmer has taken the centre ground and now Reform are starting to steal their MPs as well as voters. Now even their biggest donor is caught up in a scandal. When it rains it pours.

How can they recover from this? Can they recover from this?

The Tories are the great survivors but it's hard to see how they can win the next election, or maybe even the one after that.

I thought surely this thread us gonna be sarcastic, but no. Jacob Rees Mogg is that you?

Tbf it’s less funny than the idea that the Tories are half competent. Or even a quarter.

TBF to the OP, it is the end of an era. The most successful democratically elected party is over. That's bound to make people feel a bit sad and I know that in time, I, myself, may feel a pang of sadness about the demise of the Tories.

Providing I live long enough.

Right now I'm enjoying every bit of it.

They did it to themselves. That is the absolute ridiculousness of it. I will never understand why the Conservatives effectively started on this course of electoral suicide. Britain is a very conservative country. The last five years have been like living in a different, very stupid country. I barely recognise some of what people say in politics. Look where it has got them, it is mystifying.

It’s been longer than five years. It all began with Brexit, they’ve behaved like lunatics since 2016.

It feels very much like they choose the thickest, spottiest and most numbskulled element of their party to set their whole agenda.

I will never understand why. Conservativism is about competence. Why do that???

wrong thread

Yeah, I think I agree with this.
I've been on here for absolute years (as I like to people watch for want of a better expression lol)
and there's definitely been a decline in tolerance, an uptake in racism etc since Brexit.
It's emboldened them. Which I think is why we have all the shit culture wars now.

@Thisilldo

"You should try comedy as a profession. You’re absolutely hilarious."

Regardless of your voting intentions this comment is absolutely indicative of the emotional driven division that really gained prominence after the Brexit vote.

There is no fact based counter argument on Starmer's honesty or attempt to debate, instead it's a "I'm right and you are wrong" normally backed up by shouting louder but in this case some form of ridicule / joke.

We can see this entrenched views approach to political engagement on other topics as well from Gaza to Brexit to environmental protests etc.

Such division and unwillingness/ inability to debate causes me to genuinely worry about stability in society going forward.

I am sure that there are well intentioned decent Conservative MPs that have worked hard for their constituents but will inevitably lose their jobs this year.

Equally Johnson was out of his depth and out of control and Liz Truss quite simply was completely clueless and Sunak whilst meaning well has no new ideas and no money other than to limp into the next election,

tAnd yes I do think Starmer is a better candidate for PM than either of these but given the scale of Govt debt and high taxation I don't think there is a lot he can do differently.

Two points. First, It's the Tories fault they went for austerity rather than investment, against the advice of almost every economist worth listening to.

Second, the Bank of England generates the money for government spending from nothing. It's not like a current account. If the next government wanted to, they could spend whatever they wanted to. If they spent it on education, health, housing & infrastructure they could do it without panicking the market. But they won't.

I have no idea what you mean by the bottom third of the UK doing fine though.

The Conservatives have never been the 'most successful democratically elected part' in Scotland, by the way.

Re facts and Starmer - when obediently provided, posters get told they are wrong, deluded, told about Corbyn or jibe are made about gender, Corbyn, or Angle Rayner- goodness sometimes even Blair.

Emotional politics is not as new as Brexit. It's bee around in the US since probably Reagan, probably well before that and in the UK for at least 30 years.

I don’t think we mean the same thing @Piggywaspushed. When I say the Tory party has behaved like a bunch of lunatics since 2016 it’s because it’s given way to the worst of its extremists. No Tory government before this parliament would have given jobs and influence to people like Anderson, Rees Mogg or Steve Baker. They were there but they were the embarrassing relatives who were kept hidden. Even Johnson didn’t let Braverman anywhere near a powerful job.

Emotional politics is not as new as Brexit. It's bee around in the US since probably Reagan, probably well before that and in the UK for at least 30 years.

You may have left a zero off there ...

I think the Tory party we have now is what the money of the 80s bought.

I was responding to a different poster really blossom.

My DS's history degree runs a module on the rise in emotional politics in the 20th century. Sadly, he didn't choose it so I can't pick his brains but certainly he mass media on screen, the rise of advertising,, followed by social media , has had much to do with it.

Sorry. I misunderstood. Yes, you’re absolutely right.

Angela ‘oi scum’ Rayner who can barely strung a coherent sentence together without shouting profanities, but knew exactly how the tax system works when it came to selling her council house. Vile woman with vile behaviours and vile morals. A typical socialist really

Really like her, her scum comment was spot on, anyone who deliberately starves children really is scum.... ? took a footballer to get the Tories to change their minds on this.

Boris Johnson kept trying to look up her skirt, even blaming her for forcing him to do so...... what name would most MNetters call a man like this?

CGT avoidance? Hunt legalised evasion, by changing Tax Law so he evaded over £100k in tax on the sale of 7 flats... out of touch.

A woman, who didn’t go to public school, who doesn’t ‘talk proper’, telling Tories what she thinks of them? How very dare she!
All power to you Angela!! 💪🏻

About Angela Rayner's comment

Kemi Badenoch on Frank Hester this morning

Kemi Badenoch: I think if somebody's apologised... flippant comments, said a long time ago... it's fine for us to accept & forgive... & I do think the Tories should keep the money..

Shouldn't the same apply?

"& I do think the Tories should keep the money.."

Well she would, wouldn't she.

I'd save my tears for the mugs who voted for them.

Starmer not a liar? He lied to get elected as leader of the Labour party. His 10 pledges were swiftly abandoned, this is after just 7 months after winning

https://evolvepolitics.com/fact-check-yes-keir-starmer-has-broken-or-rowed-back-on-a-large-proportion-of-his-labour-leadership-pledges-already/

Even at the most basic level he's a liar. He's spent his entire career serving institutional powers that function to prevent fundamental change. His behaviour as DPP in the Assange case being an obvious indicator of the man he is.

Even his working-class posturing, his tool maker dad owned and ran his own factory, isn't an honest reflection. Starmer to the TUC conference "Despite being a skilled toolmaker throughout his working life, my dad thought people looked down on him because he worked on the factory floor. He was right about that.”

He's clearly the establishment choice, given an easy ride by the press, courting the sort of wealthy donors the Tories rely on, developing policy by focus group rather than by conviction.

It's never been clearer that Labour are only there to prevent fundamental change when the electorate get sick of the Tories.

Will the Tories meet their 2019 manifesto pledges?

Remember the 40 new hospitals and the 300,000 additional homes a year? Here’s how that’s going (January 2024)

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/general-election-manifesto-pledges-conservatives-40-hospitals-rishi-sunak/

@BestBadger if adapting to a changing economic landscape is lying, then sure. Personally I think not adapting is stupid. I get that Corbynites in the party aren't happy - maybe they would like 5 more years under the Tories? They need to learn a bit of pragmatism and get over the starry-eyed ideals.