To feel sorry for the Tories?

[User135644]

The Conservative Party are a British institution. The most successful political party in the democratic world. They're going through a bad time at the moment and have been dealt a bad hand. They inherited a global financial crash which the western world is still to recover from and then a once in a lifetime pandemic which has further crippled the economy. Now there's wars in Gaza and Ukraine. Really unfortunate circumstances for them to operate in.

It looks like they're going to get a really bloody nose in the next election. Starmer has taken the centre ground and now Reform are starting to steal their MPs as well as voters. Now even their biggest donor is caught up in a scandal. When it rains it pours.

How can they recover from this? Can they recover from this?

The Tories are the great survivors but it's hard to see how they can win the next election, or maybe even the one after that.

Are you actually serious? Brexit is one of the greatest acts of national self-harm since I don't know what. It was absolute insanity - inflicted on us through David Cameron's self serving referendum. Michael Gove has fucked education and levelling up is a meaningless sound bite.

What they have presided over is an absolute divorce of political rhetoric from reality - neatly evidenced by this nonsense list.

I'm going to have to go and have a lie down after reading thread. That there are such absolute fuckwits out there that genuinely believe this bunch of clowns have a single redeeming feature is beyond me. No wonder the country is so fucked if people are voting based on thinking Churchill did us proud therefore aren't Tories lovely.

Churchill would have been chucked out of the Tory party in 2019, as pro EU and too left wing.

He would also be campaigning against taking the UK out of the ECHR, which is the latest Tory wheeze to write themselves into oblivion.

I think it's ok. I'm pretty sure what you quoted is a parody. Nobody would post that in a serious way, surely? Levelling up? Brexit? Trade deals 🤣

Winston Churchill was a brave and moral man. Do not suggest that these bottom feeders are like him. They have sacrificed precisely nothing in their lives and all grab

I know. I think we must all be falling for an old-school trolling here. Nobody can seriously believe this shit.

There's an entire sub continent that might debate that with you.

And some Welsh miners.

That said Churchill despised popularism. Probably because he understood what it meant.

I admire a man who can sit down and make common cause with Stalin to save his country. I'm well aware of his deficiencies in the past. In the end they are wiped out by his effort as a leader of a national government

It's complicated 😁

@SerendipityJane / in the end that man is the reason I am writing this in English. Churchill did do things which were in my view heroic during the war; he was a peacetime failure. But right man, right place, right time: and a courageous one. Such people are rare.

@Alexandra2001

He's rolled back from Utilities, Services, & Railways will be publicly owned to, utilities should be.

The costs you're claiming are based on the CBI's inflated figures. Taking them back into public ownership would cost at least half of their claims, even just based on real market values.

It also ignores the law, which gives parliament the right to decide on compensation on a case by case basis. They don't even have to consider corporate market values.

It makes perfect economic sense, simply taking out shareholder dividends would pay back the costs over two terms of Government with these companies showing up on the government's balance sheet as assets.

Corbyn had to go because even his brand of democratic socialism was considered a threat. Which is why the establishment, and those like Starmer, Watson, Harriman et al, worked so hard to make sure Labour didn't win in 2017, being only a few thousand votes from being able to form a government.

So here we are. Another 5 years of austerity on the way.

Having seen the waste and mis management in publicly owned organisations, nationalising isn't the panacea you might think it is & 1/2 market value is still billions not spent on roads, NHS and Education, all mostly, still nationalised.

Its rather conspiracy theory to think there was an internal Labour plot to make them lose the 2017 GE.

A better way of looking at it is in 2017, Labour came very close to winning because the media nor the Tories took them seriously, they were wrong and in 2019 made sure that wasn't repeated, hence all the anti british pro terrorist rubbish, aided by a very un realistic manifesto, something McDonnell has said was a mistake, he btw would have made a great Chancellor, he had some fantastic ideas.

Whatever we get for the next 5 years, assuming it is with Labour, by no means a done deal, will be a whole lot better than if the tories win again.

Which you seem determined to want.

😂😂😂laughing so much it hurts 😂😂😂

About £2m per asylum seeker for being sent to Rwanda, Labour could save a lot of money by just ditching the inhumane Rwanda plan

Did I dream seeing a story about Kigali issuing a limit to the number of flights they are willing to accept in the next few months ?

Just read the comment above about levelling up being a success.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/03/fewer-than-20-levelling-up-projects-completed-england-figures
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/07/tory-levelling-up-labour-keir-starmer-councils-local-transport-universities
So basically empty words and promises. Funny how the M25 work was sorted out 8 hours ahead of time, like when it affects blue areas it’s work tout-suite.

No, you were wide awake

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c355971b-898d-4301-aff9-9aea31a10736?shareToken=3828bcb6dd3c43d983c74f7e16a10ff2

Ahh I do love the classic MN post of "tax the rich".

When asked to define the rich it's usually "anyone earning around 50% more than me but most definitely not me!"

Taxation levels are currently at a 70 year high and the top 1% are paying 30% of all income tax receipts. Tax them anymore and they will simply reduce their hours.

If you really want to increase taxation on the rich then you would be better off taxing wealth but this would mean that the retired couple living in a multi million pound house would have to sell up. So this is not exactly going to be a popular policy.

@BestBadger

"The arguments for common ownership haven't changed because our balance of payments increased."

Sorry but you lost me on what BoP has to do with ability to fund nationalisation. It's a trade issue which impacts exchange rates, inflation and interest rates. It has bugger all to do with debt.

Thank you. Interestingly as of 10 minutes ago, a Google search for "Rwanda flights limit" - in news 0 returns :

(notice how it doesn't return the story above).

The ongoing spat in the Red sea must be a godsent to Tory media wranglers - explains why "sinking ships" might be trending.

"What part of the country being effectively bankrupt are you having trouble with? There is no money. This isn’t 1997, the Tories have bled the country dry."

Pretty accurate summary.

Ooooo - I finally seem to be agreeing with @BIossomtoes on something!

Taxation levels are currently at a 70 year high and the top 1% are paying 30% of all income tax receipts. Tax them anymore and they will simply reduce their hours.

Your insinuation they work for it is noted.

Not all wealth is income.

In the interests of factual accuracy I would like to point out that the very rich like Rishi Sunak pay a smaller proportion of their income in tax than teachers and nurses do.
Plenty of scope therefore to ensure that, wierd anomaly is sorted out.

BestBadger is a touch confused. They seem to think the chart I posted showing the level of national debt meant balance of payments. An easy mistake to make for the politically challenged.