Court have sided with ExH for Every Weekend Contact, can I appeal? Or AIBU?

[HardDoneByContactWise]

Background:

Split with ExH due to his violence towards both me and DD when DD was 2.5 in 2017 - this was reported to the police multiple times. We went through court back then and ExH was awarded 1 overnight midweek and EOWend for 2 nights (so 4 nights in 14). Plus Boxing Day to 28th and 3 extra days during the summer (worked out at 30-32 overnights a year).

After covid ExH never picked up the weeknight overnight, so saw DD for 2 days in 14.

Since then DD has begged to see ExH more. I’ve offered the weeknight back, offered to change it to another night – although she does activities some nights that she wouldn’t give up but we could work round them, offered to have DD for childcare purposes until he finishes work then drop her off with him at home/work (he lives a 2-minute walk from his workplace) but always got told no thanks, but he would have every weekend.

I was reluctant to do every weekend, I feel like I hardly see DD in the week during term time due to work meaning she’s in childcare until 5pm some nights, other nights her having activities she wanted to be in. Literally I would see her most nights for 30-60 mins apart from the night ExH was supposed to have her which I kept free and EO Friday.

ExH kept asking for every weekend and threatened to take me back to court if I didn’t give in. I told him to go ahead, not expecting them to give him every weekend given I’d offered plenty of alternatives.

But I was wrong. They spoke to DD whose now 9 very nearly 10 and she said she wanted to see her dad more.

I offered everything again for the weeknight but ExH held the line and said every weekend. We both had solicitors and my solicitor was telling me his solicitor was advising him not to push for every weekend as it’s unfair. In the end I offered 1 night every weekend, Friday – Saturday 1 week, Saturday to Sunday the next but changing contact if there was special days such as Mothers Day or her birthday.

ExH said he wanted his 4 nights in 14 and would just not return her until Sunday on the week he has Friday night.

So, he was given every weekend because he bullied his way to it – Friday to Sunday 1 week, Saturday to Sunday the next so I never get a weekend with her and he’s got almost what he wants with 3 nights in 14. He gave no explanation as to why he won’t have her in the week, despite my solicitor questioning it- but basically, he doesn’t want to actually parent her I don’t think, he didn’t want to take her to school as it meant no lie in, no pushing her on his parents (who have her on his weekends so he gets a “break”).

I am gutted, I have plans for weekends coming up, she’ll never have another birthday party because her dad won’t let me arrange it for his weekends, she’ll never be able to go to another birthday party of a friend as her dad won’t take her, she’ll never see me on her birthday if it falls on a weekend, she’ll never see me on Mother’s Day as we already had issues if they fell on his weekends with him “forgetting” when they were (and then posting photos on Social Media of her with his mum and grandmother for Mothers Day). She won’t be able to do camps with Brownies as he won’t let her on his weekends, she won’t be able to ever go on holiday with me again as I usually book Saturday to Friday or Friday to Thursday so we get 5/6 nights and can’t do longer due to contact.

I want to appeal, but I don’t know if I can, or even if it’ll make a difference. I just feel so angry. I do all the school runs, I do all the medical appointments (and there’s a few due to a medical issue DD has), I do all the haircuts, all parents evenings, all school concerts, all sports days because he can’t organise himself and yet he gets all the fun.

I have never in almost 7 years cancelled contact unless she’s been properly throwing up unwell – slight cold, sore throat, poor nights sleep she goes. ExH has cancelled multiple times because “my mums not feeling up to seeing her” “My parents are on holiday” etc.

I think this is just a rant, not sure if I will appeal or if I even can. But I feel hard done by.

This is excellent advice. It is so important to be honest and consistent with dd. She will need to be clear about the situation and how it came about when her dad starts gaslighting her. Keep meticulous records and photograph every single invitation - send it to him electronically as well as giving it to dd to take to his house. Show her the message so she knows you have sent it. Also, he will need to buy extra clothes and toiletries for her to keep at his house. Keep school in the loop.

Wait it out, sounds like dull weekends with her dad if she can't do anything. Enjoy a few weekends off before she decides to come home again at weekends because mum actually does stuff with her 💐

I’m going to second that!!
utter garbage.

I haven't RTFT OP, only your posts, but my goodness I'd be utterly heartbroken to have no weekends at all with my child. I can't believe any court thinks this is acceptable, for a little girl to have no quality time at all with her mother 🙁

I would appeal OP, I wouldn't stop fighting this if I were you. I'm so sorry. Hopefully your little girl votes with her feet when she's old enough and realises how limited her time with her mum is x

I also can't believe her dad won't take her to weekend activities! For what reason? What is the court's view of that, I wonder? If she's anything like my now 17 year old was, she will surely want to go to weekend parties etc with friends and when she realises Dad wont take her but Mum would, she'll soon realise where she needs/ wants to be I imagine!

Yes, 100%!

I would appeal this Op it's completely wrong. ( I mean morally wrong)

I agree with pp who said make sure your DD understands why she can't do birthday parties, sleepovers, camps etc. make sure she knows it's not because you're stopping her.

Tell her that if things come up that she wants to go to she needs to speak out and ask her dad to take her. She will soon see why she's missing out.

Something about this doesn't quite add up. If there are police reports about domestic abuse and DD emotionally affected now that is a safeguarding issue.

I don't think OP is giving us the full story here around her own parenting capacity/ experiences

It wouldn't be used against her per se, appeals are relatively rare because the system is so exhausting that people often give up or can't afford to appeal, but it is not advised to let the status quo change and then become the normal arrangement, because that is much harder to change than a fluctuating arrangement that hasn't had chance to settle in yet.

I can see you're quite resigned OP, I'm a bit confused about what advice you've already had and the process you've been through, have you got a written judgment or was it delivered orally? If you've got a written judgment it's worth asking for counsel's advice on appeal. I wouldn't give up (I know that's easy for me to say)

Definitely appeal and ask them to demand he allows x amount of time that he needs to sacrifice when you go on a family holiday. It’s also totally unfair he doesn’t need to do any school drop off etc, just gets the weekend. Wrong and the court needs to change it

I would leave this initially with a view to appealing for a change later when your dd has been going every weekend and the reality of what that's like and everything she misses out on has dawned on her. She'll be much more likely to say what she really wants when she has real experience of extra time with dad.

In the meantime keep very excellent records on any times he's late or cancels last minute and everything dd gets invited to and misses out on because he refuses to take her.

Make sure you don't make requests of him on her behalf, he needs to be the one saying no, not you.

Also allude to how free, easy and fun your weekends are to him for now. Don't show how you're feeling. He's doing this to get at you by the sounds of it so don't give him the satisfaction. I agree with others that he'll likely lose interest once it doesn't seem to be causing you any pain.

Good luck.

Op. I've been in court with my ex for 4 years nearly. I've made extensive mum acquaintances on many different forums who are or have been in family court proceedings..

An order for every weekend is so rare unless agreed by both parents. At 9 years old your daughters wishes shouldn't fully be listened to. What should be ordered should be equal to both parents and in her best interests.

Every weekend will quickly isolate her from her peers, her friends, you and her other maternal family.

I wouldn't give up. Every fibre in my being would fight this...

She may want more time with her dad, fully accepted .. but every weekend sounds like it'll be socially and eventually emotionally damaging.

My ex is violent, my daughter is 5. My DD was asked consistently what her wishes were by various professionals.. consistently to everyone she's said she's happiest with Mummy and wants to live with Mummy but likes seeing her daddy on Sunday.

Her father sought every weekend contact like your ex. He sought full residence. He sought shared care. He sought midweek overnight.. all of it has been rejected and the court have made an order for every other weekend and half the holidays. Had he been given every weekend, it would've turned her life upside down. Her dad is very much like your ex and doesn't take her to parties, extra curricular activities or play dates with friends. DD lives for her friends.

Please don't give up. Please x

@ForgivenessHope if you’re a lawyer, I’m Queen Marie of Romania.

Is there any way you can register feedback OP? I have no idea, but could you put in writing the fact that, for now you are forced to accept the judgement, but you are shocked and disappointed, given all the things that dd will now miss out on, and your hope that she will have an opportunity to revisit the decision in the future. At least there will be a written record. She is only 9 and she has been manipulated.

Would love to know what law firm they work for so I can blacklist it if I'm ever (hopefully not) in need of a lawyer 🤣

I wonder if they communicate their important lawyer emails in the same manner?

"What you don't KNOW is MY client is not RESPONSIBLE for this ACCUSATION. The COURTS are the FINAL judgement!

simples

Yours sincerely,

VERY GOOD LAWYER"

Back to the OP: Condolences, ex sounds like a right tool. Hopefully it gets sorted for you. I can empathise with DD wanting to see her dad more, but it's a shame he isn't a reasonable good father who would accept EOW and perhaps a day or couple days during the week as that would be fairer on everyone. Just quite ridiculous that he won't take her to parties etc if it's "his" weekend, unless he lives 300 miles away! This was actually sort of me as a kid, I could never go to any parties etc - not due to divorced parents but because my mum was a massive workaholic and would put me in childcare almost 24/7 if she could. She'd rather work extra on the weekends (for no extra pay & we didn't need the money either) than take me to a friend's party or Brownies or whatever. Any free time on the weekends that wasn't spent working, was spent either at church or cleaning, shopping etc, so I still wasn't allowed to "go to parties" because "there wasn't time". Consequences was I was horribly bullied because everyone thought I was "weird" for not being allowed to socialise outside of school. I really hope the kids at school are kinder to your DD than the kids at my school were! I do resent my DM for it a bit, but I have also tried to make peace with it. She wanted to be a career woman, and I don't think that's inherently bad, she just went way too far with it at the expense of spending time with her DC...

I am so sorry OP.

All you can do is bide your time and make the best of things so Monday to Friday holidays, considering changing your hours so that DD does not have to attend after school club (could you finish and pick her up from school once or twice a week and catch up on the weekend) and maybe looking into taking some parental leave to give you more time off in the school holidays. Parental leave is unpaid and you can take up to 4 weeks per year usually taken in blocks of 1 week although I have taken 2 weeks as a day a week for 10 weeks in special circumstances.

As for birthday parties, you could have one after school. This certainly started to happen with DS as he got older. Trampoline party after school was often cheaper and less busy than a weekend for example and everyone managed to come with parents arranging lifts there and back to fit with their commitments.

Save your cleaning, food shop, batch cooking, hair appointments and lunches with friends for the weekend so that you don’t have to worry about doing those when you have DD.

Give it a year or two and you may find it isn’t working out for DD if her dad won’t take he to anything or let her see her friends. Then you can revisit and she will be more able to articulate what she wants.

It will be ok 💐

@Mummyoflittledragon This is not a good idea as the OP can be accused of parental alienation if the child says "Mum says x" to anyone.

The child themselves needs to be "encouraged" to talk to other professional third parties e.g. teachers if they are unhappy about their parenting arrangements. Some primary schools and most secondary schools, if they have good pastoral care, will note this.

I genuinely think if you don't appeal your DD will realise very quickly dad isn't a good father.. there's more to being a dad than just spending time.

I'm so far luckily unfamiliar with family courts, but this seems so grossly unfair.

Wtf is going on for a judge to think this is either fair or good for a child? No advice but a huge amount of sympathy op. I can't believe the courts have become so stacked against women.

I'm so sorry this happened @HardDoneByContactWise

I agree you shouldn't appeal right now, I think he will use it against you. I do believe it's likely your daughter's words that led to this, so be careful as to not fall into his trap - alienation etc.

I think you are wise to focus on getting more annual leave so you can take as much time off on school holidays as possible. If you have a sympathetic boss, speak to them about the situation. See if you can either negotiate more now or if you can work creatively - in school holidays can you work 1 day at the weekend to take a week day off.

I'd try to have 2 nights/week without activities and no after school club (if you can get creative about work and they support you - would they let you log on later after she's in bed, so that you can finish emails etc then). Use those two evenings a week to have family time - board games, walks, crafts, film etc. Make them your weekends.

Keep note of everything. What you pay for, time you take off to spend with her. What he pays and when he says grandparents are caring for granddaughter. In time, I hope your daughter may say she wants less time and then you have evidence to support that. Right now I imagine she's swayed by the disneyland style parenting he likely has of less rules/boundaries etc. At her age she's likely to fall for that, but as time goes on, hopefully she's wise to it.

This is such a hard situation. I'm sorry you are in it.

Re birthday parties - host them a Friday evening that isn't his weekend. I have several divorced friends that do this.

Why on earth would you not appeal? Surely you just tell DD you're sad she and you won't get any quality time together without weekends so you want to ask the court to offer dad weekday and EOW so she can see him more but not at the cost of you snd her having fun together. Also surely dad leaving her with GPs is itself a basis for challenging the ruling?

@HardDoneByContactWise i know this is extremely shit for you and your DD (she just doesn’t know that yet) naturally her instincts were (I assume she had her wishes and feelings prepared for court?) her instincts are that she wants to see her dad some more and hasn’t quite realised how this is going to impact her socially (if he refuses to take her to friends/parties etc) and also mentally/emotionally because she will start to miss spending time with you.

she will know on occasions such as Mother’s Day that she will feel the urge to spend it with you.. she will know all of these things.

all you can do for now, is make the best out of a really shit situation and unfortunately let her see that the sun doesn’t shine out of his arse,

she did something natural and said she wanted to spend more time with him, she will soon be at an age where she can decide whether or not she really wants to go to his,

let her see how this goes, when she realises the negatives it will have, then try mediation/apply back to the courts so she can have her wishes and feelings reevaluated, time is key here x

I would appeal, you need at least one full weekend with DD per months for quality time. Also reiterating that he is welcome to overnights during the week.

By the time it gets to court DD will have experienced every weekend with Dad and may be more vocal about wanting time with you.