To think this country's future looks bleak due to the attitude towards having children

[KookyExpert]

I have observed a very hostile attitude towards people with children especially on MN. Whenever anyone posts anything about struggling financially due to childcare etc, there are lots of people commenting on how having a family and children are lifestyle choice.
As the saying goes it takes a village to raise a child, there are no villages these days and most families have both parents working which makes the role of parenting even harder in the current times.
Not just that, there are many family friendly organisations but in reality if someone has a young child and when parents have to take time off work to look after sick children, there are so many people moaning about it.
UK reported its lowest birth rate in the last 2 decades and it's relying on migrants to fill the jobs. With the hostile attitude and crippling childcare costs, I think this country's future looks bleak and the shortage for many occupations will only get bigger with increased reliance on migrants to fill those jobs if people keep choosing to have no children.
I expect people to have bit more sympathy for parents with children and less hostility to create a better future for everyone.

I'm having to live alone because my husband left me, not by choice. I would not have chosen this.

Extremely surprised with a lot of responses here. Of course, the state should care more about children. It's not that the village owns something to someone it's about ensuring that there is enough workforce in the future for the country to operate and develop. And you can't rely solely on immigration (I'm an immigrant myself by the way). Raising kids in this country is extremely and unnecessarily expensive. I prefer a Scandinavian system with cheap kindergartens for everyone instead of the 15/30h system we have here.

"And you can't rely solely on immigration "

Why not?

That's a genuine question by the way.

People need to do jobs.
Does it matter whether people move here to do jobs or people are born here, grow up here and do jobs.
Jobs are done either way.

I'm seriously asking btw because it is entirely possible there's an element I'm missing.

All I can see is people needed in location A.
Excess of people in location B.
Surplus move from B to A, solving both under and over population problems.

It just seems logical to move an existing resource from where it is not needed to where it is needed rather than maintain an excess in one area and create new resources in another.

You're assuming there's always going to be a steady supply of willing, able and desirable people. I'm not sure that's a wise assumption.

That could be said for any person. I could have 6 children and not one of them be willing, able or desirable.

Yeah, but we can at least influence how those kids grow up so we've got a fighting chance. And at least they'd be in the country... if we're raising a whole generation of kids who can't work, I'm not sure how we're going to be in a position to inventivise anyone to come here anyway.

So why the hell are you on a forum for parents named, 'Mumsnet'!

It is not just about paying financially into a tax system and receiving a pension, we need younger generations to sustain the infrastructure, for economic prosperity, for being the manpower in all sorts of jobs that allow a country to function. Children are not a 'lifestyle' choice they're 'life' and without them and the sacrifices and efforts many parents go to the country would be f**ked!

Statistically that is a nonsense!

So why the hell are you on a forum for parents named, 'Mumsnet'!

Started in relationships because my ex partner was abusing me. Stayed for AIBU and the MNetters Without Children boards (as well as the thousands of non children related posts every day). Is that ok?

Not this crap again. Anyone can post on MN, stop being so exclusionary and divisive.

I was supposed to quote this poster, it seems to me a very hostile and insulting position to take on a forum for parents!

What is more divisive than deriding parents on a parent forum!

This forum used to be supportive of parents, Mums, now it is full of people attacking, deriding or insulting Mums, where's the support.

There are some truly idiotic comments in here. How depressing that over half of voters think you’re being unreasonable. News flash, people: you need your citizens to have children so someone pays taxes in order for you to have a pension. You need younger citizens to fill caring and other roles so that society as you know it can continue to function.

Having children should not be viewed as a “lifestyle” choice for these and many other reasons — that is a total misunderstanding of the whole social contract we are all living in.

The fertility crisis is very real, and the fact that it is cripplingly expensive to pay for childcare on two above average incomes in this country is an absolute disgrace. The future WILL be bleak if the UK birth rate falls further, and yes, we will have to hope immigration (which no doubt many posters on here are also against, funny that) can fill in the many gaps.

It doesn't need to be always though.
Just a redistribution.
Redistribute rather than increase. There are over 8 billion people on the planet. I don't think we're in short supply.

I genuinely don't understand why it isn't logical to move resources from where they aren't needed to where they are rather than continue to increase an already unsustainable global population.

Actually, reading that back I think I do understand. It's emotional rather than logical isn't it? Some national pride/maintaining cultures stuff even those the sensible things to do is make better use of the people we have.

Several posters on this thread have mused on why people aren’t having children, what can we do to make having children attractive, such as financial incentives and free childcare. But ultimately, there are a growing number of people who couldn’t be swayed by any incentives because they’ve made an active decision not to have children not simply for financial reasons but for the reasons that poster has just been honest about. I’m sure if you’re on the inside it has its joyful moments, but from the outside parenting just doesn’t look like very much fun at all - and let’s face it, threads like this where people are saying how much hard work it is being a parent and how parents need compassion and support because it’s so exhausting aren’t really promoting otherwise.

But it doesn't change the fact that Mumsnet is a forum for parents. Derision and insults and mostly antagonism about children seems a very hostile position to take.

MN is not "for" parents and hasn't been for years.

It's called Mumsnet because it's an internet site that was started by a couple of London based mums looking to make friends and share places in London to take their kids and the tagline says by parents for parents because that's how it started out and rebranding is an expensive nightmare. The name Mumsnet has value to advertisers, it really is as simple as that. It makes no financial sense to change it to Peoplenet. By people for people.

Equally, it isn't the job of parents on a forum for parents to persuade anybody into having children.

To be fair most stuff that people complain about on mumsnet are down to lifestyle choices

With an entire section for those of us without children. And thousands upon thousands of posts related to cats, fashion, holidays, relationships. The tagline is outdated.

Oh yes, of course it is so why when you Google Mumsnet is this the first things that comes up:

'<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.mumsnet.com/&ved=2ahUKEwia-Y-ivO6EAxWmwQIHHT7LCyMQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Jp7uGOQdS6ui8F99ox53d" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mumsnet
Mumsnet makes parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support on everything from conception to childbirth, from babies to teenagers.'

Why do the surveys, advice, competitions product placement, images majoritively centre around having children?

Sections for people without children, yes but even then, many posts relate to children in some way like relationships with children, like my partner/husband is a good Dad, a shit husband should I get rid? Holiday section will have loads of questions about taking children on holiday. I feel you are clutching at straws! Sure it is just a question of rebranding and how expensive it is🙄are you sure is it isn't pretty lucrative having a website focusing on parents.

I think it actually draws users who hate mums, women and children in particular and want to come and tell them off/put them down/let off steam about them in some way without consequence.

Yes, I agree, these days it does, so depressing and you can feel the anger and resentment in the posts.