To think this country's future looks bleak due to the attitude towards having children

[KookyExpert]

I have observed a very hostile attitude towards people with children especially on MN. Whenever anyone posts anything about struggling financially due to childcare etc, there are lots of people commenting on how having a family and children are lifestyle choice.
As the saying goes it takes a village to raise a child, there are no villages these days and most families have both parents working which makes the role of parenting even harder in the current times.
Not just that, there are many family friendly organisations but in reality if someone has a young child and when parents have to take time off work to look after sick children, there are so many people moaning about it.
UK reported its lowest birth rate in the last 2 decades and it's relying on migrants to fill the jobs. With the hostile attitude and crippling childcare costs, I think this country's future looks bleak and the shortage for many occupations will only get bigger with increased reliance on migrants to fill those jobs if people keep choosing to have no children.
I expect people to have bit more sympathy for parents with children and less hostility to create a better future for everyone.

Throwing money at the problem with bribes and subsidising childcare does work in France and Czechia. Their birth rates aren't at replacement rate but they're a hell of a lot higher than everywhere else.

You also have to sort out housing.

@arethereanyleftatall how are you paying for my child or anyone's child? We are higher earners so don't claim any child benefits, pay a lot in taxes and no free childcare. How are you paying for other people's children? Absolutely laughable.”

No, it isn’t. Your contributions will not cover the services you and your child/children use during their lifetimes.

showmethegin · 08/03/2024 15:01
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The hostility from society is palpable when you have young children”

Really? Ours are adults now. I can’t recall ever feeling hostility from “society”. Most people were nice 🤷‍♀️

I think Section 21 causes a lot pf problems when it comes to creating a village
One of my friends was evicted 3 times in 18 months, (no fault, landlords selling up or going bust) and thanks to the rental shortage, her children have moved schools with each house move. Ot must make it very hard to make connections and feel part of a community when you always know you could be moved on at any moment.
I know some sanctimonious cow will appear now and say it is her fault for having children while renting, but the real world isn't like that.

I have moved local authorities while on maternity leave leave and it's shocking the difference of what's available for parents - a new mum should try to live in an area which has been labour for a while in my opinion as children's centres etc are much better funded x

What a horrible anti mother misogynistic thread to be on Mumsnet of all places!

People shout down those who make the personal sacrifice to have children but then expect those very children they would deny the existence of to pay their pensions and nhs care in old age.

Most public expenditure is on the elderly. So the childless elderly are dependent on the tax paying children of the parents they scolded.

Fine, don't have DCs. But don't expect anything from the state in your old age.

The children would be the ones to cover the cost of the services they use as adults. Many parents do indeed pay sufficient tax to cover the services they consume personally over their adult lives plus their children's education (or don't use state education).

Higher earners in the UK pay some of the highest marginal tax rates in the entire world once all deductions are factored in to make a genuine comparison between countries. It is the average earners in the UK that pay much less tax than in the countries that have decent public services elsewhere in Europe.

Fine, don't have DCs. But don't expect anything from the state in your old age.

In which case, you'll be OK if childless people stop paying the tax that funds your children's healthcare and education?

Thought not.

(Also, nobody has kids as a personal sacrifice to the state, they have them because they want them. And nobody is "denying the existence" of children - what does that even mean?!)

Twenty years of Labour and it is rubbish here.

I genuinely don't understand this attitude from older posters that because they didn't receive any help financially rearing children that means no one else should get any either.

This is where AI can fill a gap.

I pay more tax than my DCs health & education costs.

It's older people who cost the state not DCs.

A nursery place is £200pwk, a residential care home place is £2000 pwk.

Most A&E admissions are in the over 80s.

None of which answers my question. We either have a social contract whereby each generation pays for the schooling and healthcare of the younger ones, and receives a state pension funded by those generations upon retirement, or we don't.

What you can't do is decree that childless people have to participate in the social contract when it comes to paying in, but receive no benefit from it at the end.

Quite happily have the tax money I pay to fund your children's health care, childcare, education, university grant, and so on and put it towards my pension instead and invested over 20 yrs + I'd end up with far more than I'd get from state pension anyway.

How about you pay your fair share of council tax you know that adult social care makes up the majoirty of spend for councils which when you get older you might need...but guess what did you pay your fair share of council tax ..nope but you will get the same benefit though. Meanwhile single childless person paid more council tax for the same adult care benefit. 🙄

If you want to pay less council tax, I suggest a houseshare or lodger.

Having “a village” isn’t about other people selflessly forming one around you. A lot of parents seem to misinterpret it as such. A village is what you work to build yourself - by finding other parents to do childcare / babysitting swaps with, by looking around you and exchanging favours other people need for the ones you need, by reaching out and offering to help others in a similar position as you because that’s how to forge bonds. When people on MN post about being sad they have no “village”, they never seem to have considered laying the foundations of that village themselves

This sums it up for me.

If people don't take time to make friends, find low level drama with all their relatives, focus on me and my little family, never answer the door, don't talk to their neighbours, go to toddler groups and spend the whole time convinced everyone there isn't worth talking to, does the school run and invents conspiracies where the parents chatting to each other are actually cliquey bitches, and the other parents who are mindlessly staring into the middle distance are also evil snobs who don't like strangers for some ridiculous reason (like they don't like my hair colour or must ignore me because they don't like my clothes) and so on, it's hardly surprising that they don't have a village.

It takes a village is often used as a way to try to guilt trip (usually female) relatives into providing childcare on demand without doing much in return.

Just a quick reminder that childless is usually used to refer to infertile people

Now I don't agree with the idea that childfreeby choice people who have paid in via taxes shouldn't recieve anything from the state in their old age to be clear

But I think standing there and declaring that infertile people who actively wanted children but couldn't have them, maybe had miscarriages and still births etc shouldn't be entitled to anything from the state in their old age because they don't have children is a pretty fundamentally nasty point to make

@MariaVT65 Im child free by choice because i didnt want a life of drudgery.

So you had your first Xmas off in 8 years while she didnt even work it cos she called in sick She also had every previous Christmas off and is now insisting its deffo her turn this year (id have been tempted to tell her she was due to to 8 Xmases in a row like you did) I knew a sickie would get pulled. No wonder you are job hunting. Good luck with it but i dont think you will need it. 🙂

Yes let's penalise people who don't want to just shack up with someone ir tell them to share a house with someone instead of making everyone pay their fair share.

Why woukdnt you want to support thst...oh right cos it'd hurt your pocket if your a couple with or without children. Let othe people pay more into the system instead...sure....

You're not being penalised. Living alone is as much a lifestyle choice as having children. If you don't like it, don't do it.

You don't seem quite sure what you're cross about. Is it people with kids or couples? Because you can be neither or both.

That about sums it up, yep! (She also reported me to HR for discrimination, which was... an event.)

Thanks for the good luck. :)

I think people on mumsnet are hostile to parents having multiple children they cannot afford and then complain about how much they cost.

and yes, it’s very much a lifestyle choice. Thanks to whoever said they made a personal sacrifice to have children you gave me the biggest laugh on a glum day 😂

I found some people quite hostile, rude, judgey, nosey and overstepping when I had young children, more so than at any other time of my life, and I had DD1 nearly 19 years ago. There is and was so much hostility generated by the press and other media about single mums on benefits that people assume that's what you are - even though I was married, in a professional career, and earned more than DH. I met up with some other mums in a café and one bloke on the next table went on quite a rant about feckless teenage mums - I was about the youngest there aged 29! It was quite hilarious but also sad, and certainly not the only passive aggressive comment, unsolicited advice or outright hostility I experienced while the children were small.