To think this country's future looks bleak due to the attitude towards having children

[KookyExpert]

I have observed a very hostile attitude towards people with children especially on MN. Whenever anyone posts anything about struggling financially due to childcare etc, there are lots of people commenting on how having a family and children are lifestyle choice.
As the saying goes it takes a village to raise a child, there are no villages these days and most families have both parents working which makes the role of parenting even harder in the current times.
Not just that, there are many family friendly organisations but in reality if someone has a young child and when parents have to take time off work to look after sick children, there are so many people moaning about it.
UK reported its lowest birth rate in the last 2 decades and it's relying on migrants to fill the jobs. With the hostile attitude and crippling childcare costs, I think this country's future looks bleak and the shortage for many occupations will only get bigger with increased reliance on migrants to fill those jobs if people keep choosing to have no children.
I expect people to have bit more sympathy for parents with children and less hostility to create a better future for everyone.

Its a lifestyle choice until in my generation i am senile and sick and there is no one left to care for anyone 😂 then perspective will change when we all panic and there may be a boom, then after next generation a drop and that is the cycle.

But you never know, there could be an apocolypse between now and then 😂

I think other countries will think we are mad. You live alone? No family? No kids? Because you didnt have a large enough savings pot and a bedroom each for each theoretical child?

Tbh i think the future is bleak more so because everyone is miserable, angry, stressed and divided. If society was happier and had a better quality of life whatever your choice/situation it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue and people wouldn't care about the person 2 blocks away circumstances so much.

The Thread title is about the future of our county and attitude to children.
Let me suggest that the attitude towards children is more a consequence of the financial problems that we have had for a long time. It is not the cause.
The cause has been woeful productivity which I suggest is the fault of poor management.
Nigel Lawson had talked of deficits of finance and management in 1988. We still have the management deficit.
The public attitude to families is obvious upthread. We are all less patient (there is another thread on attitude to retail staff) it demonstrates similar judgements and problems and reactions.
We are all under a pressure that I did not see in the 1970s or 80s when I was a young adult. We have to do more we have to work in with other peoples timing which is getting stricter.

Precisely.

We can get all our needs met as a country by allowing much more immigration - there are still many places in the world where there is no choice but to have as many children as you are physically able.

And if we don't want to create quicker climate death then the rich countries need to have MUCH MUCH fewer children.

This is literally the reality of what we MUST do to ensure species survival.

Unless you suffer terrible mental health issues because your biological need is so strong you should consider not having them.

The desire to have children actually a mental health condition — though I wouldn't be surprised if it were made into one.

Well yes, infertility has a very strong mental health affect - some women suffer terribly

Council tax pays for schools among other services your children use (libraries, for instance). So yes, everyone chips in to pay for your kids, unless you send them to a public school.

Yes, though that's a natural and proportional response to circumstances, rather than an illness or mental health condition.

I dont have children and don't think I want any but I completely agree with you.

This is the maddest take on immigration (and I guess the child free?) I’ve ever read!!

Who do we dislike more as a society- foreigners or other people’s children? Agree about global warming concerns though.

How is that a mad perspective in the slightest? It is a recognized phenomenon, and its incredibly damaging on many levels. Poaching skills and labour from poorer countries is modern day imperialism.

But the "hostility" goes both ways. A prime example is the school holiday. Often those who do not have children are deemed unreasonable if they refuse to give up their A/L in favour of those with kids. There is also the classic "why are you on a site called Mumsnet if you don't have kids? " Or saying those who choose not to have them are "selfish for choosing to have an easier life".

People are free to choose whether or not to have children but neither choice is more valid than the other.

Because we’re not kidnapping doctors and other skilled workers from India, they are free human beings who can choose to immigrate if they wish to, or did you think they should be banned from leaving their country? No one is forcing them to want to move here, they are making a free choice.

It is a lifestyle choice though isn’t it. There won’t be any jobs to fill, AI will take over most jobs.

Wage support was introduced in 1968. Dm worked in supplementary benefit in the 70’s.

Because we're recruiting them deliberately rather than investing in educating and retaining our own population. It is an active choice we are making, despite knowing the detrimental impact on the countries they come from. It's 21st century colonialism.

Isn’t it more that we just are more likely to accept a migrant from any country, if they’re skilled, like most other countries also do? I do understand the impact and I’m not disagreeing with that, but that’s simply one of the consequences of immigration; so then yo have to decide if you agree with immigration as a concept or not.

We don't take people from "any country". We seek out and recruit lots of people from just a few countries.
I'm not anti migration, far from it actually, but I do think it's really important to do it responsibly and not as an alternative to fixing our own issues.

Contraception can fail.

It's a vicious cycle though, you describe people 'choosing' to not have children but the reality is that when people are struggling, they are less likely to have children. So fewer people are born and the economy suffers even more and then so on. People might think it is a 'choice' but the reality is that if more people were comfortable they'd more likely be having children/ having more children.

@Naunet you must have a very limited view on the challenges around the world. Have you ever been to any of the above mentioned countries?
UK doesn't contributes to these skilled immigrants education, the qualifications they need, it's provided by those developing countries pockets. Their tax payers pay for them to get educated then countries from the west go there and recruit them actively. It affects those countries massively leaving less doctors, engineers and other much needed professions. I have been to these countries and know the reality of the impact.

@Naunet may be for future reference, it would be good for you to know that it's not just my perspective, there is a name for this phenomenon - "brain drain". Have a search on Google.

This one really made me chuckle, you must be joking right?
To say having urge to have children is mental illness, this is absolutely disgraceful.

Question for people suggesting humans should stop procreating for climate's sake and choose to brain drain other developing countries instead - Would you rather choose to save the mythical climate crisis or let people in developing countries struggle without proper resources for their development?