To think this country's future looks bleak due to the attitude towards having children

[KookyExpert]

I have observed a very hostile attitude towards people with children especially on MN. Whenever anyone posts anything about struggling financially due to childcare etc, there are lots of people commenting on how having a family and children are lifestyle choice.
As the saying goes it takes a village to raise a child, there are no villages these days and most families have both parents working which makes the role of parenting even harder in the current times.
Not just that, there are many family friendly organisations but in reality if someone has a young child and when parents have to take time off work to look after sick children, there are so many people moaning about it.
UK reported its lowest birth rate in the last 2 decades and it's relying on migrants to fill the jobs. With the hostile attitude and crippling childcare costs, I think this country's future looks bleak and the shortage for many occupations will only get bigger with increased reliance on migrants to fill those jobs if people keep choosing to have no children.
I expect people to have bit more sympathy for parents with children and less hostility to create a better future for everyone.

And those who earn more than 100k make up only a tiny portion of society.

I once had an elderly lady tell me to tell my toddler who wasn't making much noise other than babbling "tell it to shut up". It wasn't even a smart cafe. One of those joined to a bakery. I can't imagine it happening in other places

It's a biological/sociological norm to have children. Remaining child free is the "lifestyle choice" IMO.
I hate that "it's a Lifestyle choice" is used as a stick to beat people with when pandemics/wars/inflation happens and suddenly children who were previously comfortably provided for are now heading into poverty.
Or "it's a lifestyle choice so nobody earning less than £50k per year should be allowed a family".
It's just a knobby attitude.

100% this x

The ones at the lower end of the income scales and not contributing "enough" financially will be the ones cleaning the hospital so that the doctor on £100k patching you up and paying oodles of tax can do their job properly. Etc etc etc.
Everyone has value and worth, don't be such a snob.

Child free by choice here. You won't get a shred of sympathy off me

No, people don't have children for that reason. But it is something that the government should take into account, because falling birthrates is a political issue. And the alternative - immigration - is also a huge political issue.

So far there seems to be no coherent plan for what we're going to do with an aging population, except for increasing the pension age which isn't an actual solution.

Both are lifestyle choices. Your choice to have children has a massive carbon footprint, which directly affects this planet.

So far there seems to be no coherent plan for what we're going to do with an aging population, except for increasing the pension age which isn't an actual solution.

You know you can’t bring logic into a debate like this?!

You know, unlike a lot of the harsh people on this thread, a lot of us are sensitive/autistic and don’t cope very well in this capitalist society. We often become physically or mentally unwell. We don’t usually have the same earning potential as those who can cope with more stress. That’s why the welfare state exists.

I guess that means that none of us should have children. Maybe it’s a good idea to remove our genes from the gene pool and let all you superior beings get on with earning your 100k plus salaries. Then you can remove the benefits system altogether and if any of you (God forbid) become ill or disabled you can just starve.

Did you mean to be so rude?

@AmethystSparkles pls don’t take it to heart. I truly believe in a safety net & I have a good income. I have friends with good incomes who also believe in a safety net. The ones who don’t or are slagging those of on here are likely getting some form of benefit but feel the need to punch down.

We have a me me me attitude about everything, not just kids. Very individualistic. It's not healthy. For goodness sake we have a mental health crisis, we've had decades of Age UK adverts about lonely old people, DH brings home something or other from the Samaritans at the train station on a weekly basis - and people think society is fine? Human beings are supposed to function as a collective society and we don't want to anymore. The state has become a surrogate "village", but it's a poor substitute in reality.

So much this.

the desire to rely on grandparents rather than building a friendship with parents around you makes no sense. Or even just giving the tiniest bit of effort to your existing friends.

Too many selfish people asking why everyone else isn’t selfless.

Would you rather they had an abortion than claim benefits then?

Perhaps the realisation that it is an alternative if you can't be arsed to sort contraception before a night of pleasure.

I disagree that mumsnet is anti-children. It's largely made up of parents.

40 years ago the carbon footprint of having children was not known. I am an only child. I have chosen to not have children. My parents' choices several decades ago has no bearing on what we know today and the decisions we make today based on said knowledge.

To suggest that it would be better if my parents had decided to not have me says more about you than it does me.

Well it’s not a huge surprise that the birth rate is down. The UK has had a decline in family friendly policies since the Tories took over and Brexit probably hasn’t helped. Or Covid. A weekly shop costs an arm and a leg now. Everything is really expensive and we are all constantly made to feel guilty about carbon emissions. I had one child fewer than I wanted to due to finances and I’m a slightly higher than average earner.

I chose NOT to have kids as a lifestyle choice so surely having them must also be a lifestyle choice.

The children that are currently growing up will be the person who cares for you at hospital, the person who empties your bins, the person who makes your food. Surely you want them well looked after and well educated? How did this weird disconnect happen where people can't see how they are affected by the wellbeing of those around them? Children literally create and manage the world you live in. A person who has any understanding beyond 'I don't like tax' should know that what benefits them benefits you.

@PSEnny
Let’s imagine kids of today have that attitude when they are of working age. Those pensioners that don’t have a good personal pension? Tough luck you’re stuck with a dwindling state pension.

Old age will increasingly hard if you don’t have family to pay for you or you’ve saved for a good private pension. Or you work till you drop.

We get the society we deserve. In the U.K. it seems it’s each to their own.

But it is a choice, and people have to consider the expense, time, impact on their relationship. If you looked at it objectively, god knows why anyone would have kids. And I do. Maybe if the country helped those millions on long term sick leave to get back into work, that might help? Our public health is awful in the UK, people are so unhealthy.

It's not really a choice if the way your country is run means the choice isn't open to you, it's only open to certain people who meet specific criteria.