To give up potty training and wait for DS to say he wants to wear pants / use the toilet?

[Comeandeat]

We’ve been trying since November and it’s obviously now march.

I’ve put pull ups on him because I’ve run out of clean trousers. I think with that I’ve decided to leave it. I don’t ever want to initiate it myself again. It’s destroyed me. AIBU just to wait for DS? I don’t even care when that is any more.

He is 3 years and 3 months.

At @Comeandeat - as you need to preserve your mental health, just have your DO continue with potty training. Disengage yourself but don't disengage with potty training or disadvantage your son by not having him go to school

You're clearly at the end of your tether @Comeandeat, so I don't blame you for having a break and he's only 3! Ignore the posters that are saying he's too old to be in nappies now, or their child came out of the womb already potty trained because all children are different.
I really wouldn't have pulled him from preschool though, as that's so important for him. Unless it's a really shit preschool (I doubt it), none of the staff will be judging you or a 3 year old for being in nappies. Please reconsider that.
You also have a young baby so I imagine everything seems worse and difficult than you might usually find things.
You've probably tried countless things but what worked with my children, is that I literally stayed at home for a whole week. We didn't go anywhere! Had the potty downstairs and just put them in a T-shirt and that was it! Obviously easier to do when the weather is a bit warmer. Kept plonking them in the potty. Sometimes read to them, sometimes put their favourite programme on the tele then OTT praise when we managed to 'catch' something!
My eldest was much easier to train than my second child but we got there eventually.
As an aside, what are his speech and language skills like?

@MariaVT65 ERIC says “months long” this children’s hospital says 6 months: https://health.ucdavis.edu/children/patient-education/potty-training-children

No one I know IRL has had overnight success. I don’t know what that rhetoric exists.

OP @Comeandeat if you think he is neurodivergent I recommend this Facebook group.
If you ask there you'll get advice that understands the issues you are facing. It is not uncommon for ND children to be in nappies at school age.

m.facebook.com/groups/207951976411320/?ref=share

Please do not panic (I know it’s easier said than done!)

Ive heard that boys tend to be later. FWIW DD was the last one of my MCT group to toilet train in the day but was the first at night. When she went dry during the day, two weeks later she was dry at night!

DD refused to potty train. She would cry, refuse to take her nappy off and sit on the potty. One day after nursery she just decided she wanted to go to the toilet because her friend was going to the toilet. Next day she went into pants and that was that!

DS is 4 in May and due to start school September 2024. He is on the autism waitlist. Showed zero signs of being ready but I decided to try over the last summer holiday. Disaster. Has zero bowel and bladder awareness. Peeing and pooing everywhere. Since then we have kept him in a pull up and been casually potty training. For example if I go to the toilet I will ask DS if he wants to go to the potty and I have been getting him to practice pulling the pull up down, sit on potty, wipe bum, pull pull up up, wash hands, dry hands. He still won’t tell anyone he needs the potty or take himself to the potty. I’m going to have another crack at potty training him when I have a week off after Easter.

Do not panic! Try again in the summer. It’s 18 months until your son goes to school!

You’re doing just fine - you’ve tried for 4 months!! He’s just not quite ready yet. Contrary to a lot of advice on here when they are ready they get it quickly (within a week) if they’re not it will take months.

I had 2 sons the first got it quite quickly but my youngest was over 3. He will not be in school in nappies.

If he doesn’t get it in a week stop, have a break for a few weeks then just try again.

What sounds better? Being frustrated for months and having constant accidents or stopping and just trying again to test if he’s ready? That’s what worked with both mine. No stress!

OP, I've read all your post and the best advice I can give you is to relax. He's only 3 y.o. and kids "get" toilet training in their own sweet time.

Don't stress, keep taking him to the toilet (even with a timer if necessary) telling him how wonderful it'll be when he can go by himself. Keep at it with a smile but be consistent. Whatever plan you want to implement, consistency, a smile and a relax attitude are key.

OP I hated Oh Crap too! It shouldn’t be this massive battle. I tried DD just after she turned 2 and it was disaster, no clue what she was meant to be doing. Tried a few months later and she got it day 1 and that was that (days…nights came a year later). So to me it sounds like he just isn’t ready and boys can definitely take longer and be a bit later based on what many parents around me have said (including my mum about my brother).

There are some really unpleasant people on here who need to take a good look at themselves and why they feel the need to get condescending and high and mighty or downright nasty to someone who has clearly said they are struggling. A break is not going to make a blind bit of difference in the long run.

Our son was 3.5 when we potty trained, got a lot of comments about how late we'd left it. He still wasn't showing any "signs" of being ready. We got the Oh Crap training book - I find her writing style positively judgemental and idiotic, for example ignore the part where she says if you left it beyond 36 months you've f*ed up. You haven't. But the part of her method that did ring for me was once you've started you've got to keep going, as otherwise they learn there's other options than potty/toilet so have no motivation to change. I remember it says something like for the first day or two you literally stay at home at the whole day is about you watching them so that you get to know the signs of them needing to go, even if they don't recognise them yet.

We've just used it again with our 2 year old DD as she was asking to start using a potty and she's adapted brilliantly to it. Just shows all children are different, so don't listen to any comments about your choices OP. It's a daunting and stressful process, but you and he can do it. X

Poor you. I watched my older sister really struggling potty training her daughter because it became a battle of wills and my sister was so determined she would win and be in control which led to my niece peeing on the sofa, silk curtains...you name it! I am very conscious of trying not to be to controlling... but my own baby is due in a week and a half and really how do I know how I'm going to be in the moment?! I think taking a break is a really good idea for you and you never know, without the pressure he may just get it.

Also I will add it took me until I was 6 to learn how to tell the time and now I have two degrees and a very successful career; and my husband who is dyslexic was always told he was stupid and lazy and has 3 degrees and an MBA and is one of the smartest people I know.

Take it easy, it will all fall into place. Good luck!

Sorry OP I've just caught a couple of posts that I'd missed in the middle - can I ask when you say you hate the Oh Crap book and it didn't work for you, but also that you haven't been using a method I'm a bit confused, as that book has such a strict methodology I don't understand how you've both tried it but not used a method if that makes sense?

As my post says, please don't get me wrong as I don't think much of her writing style at all, but I also think that having a structure to work to is both beneficial for parents and the child. I can confidently say without that structure I don't think our DS would have progressed quickly either. Like your DS he really didn't show any awareness or signs at 3.5 and actively didn't want me changing his dirty nappies (when every book tells you it's uncomfortable for them so they'll want you to change their nappy and this is a sign of "readiness").!? 🤷🏻‍♀️

You're at break point.
You aren't stupid, or lazy or any of the other things you have called yourself... so stop that please.
However you are catastrophising.
Please email nursery and put him back in... it's good for him, and it's good for you.
I've worked in early years education for 20 years, potty trained 4 of my own plus grandson and I PROMISE you nursery have seen it all! Some kids are great, get it easily. Some have continence issues (usually poo witholding) and some literally don't give a shit, and just are not interested.

Very few are still in nappies after 5.. and the nightmare late toilet users are usually very fast to get it when THEY finally decide to.

Your son is halfway there.. he uses a potty for wees if you take him. My grandson is the same age, and same stage.. if we take him (and yes we often have to make it a game 'who can wee first, me or you?') he'll go, if we don't, he will forget and wet himself because life is too interesting to stop playing! We go together every couple of hours.

We did crack the pooing, with massive bribes (I'm sure you've tried but just incase... I bought a pack of 30 toy cars from Amazon, showed dgs very casually that he could choose one when he did his poo on the potty, and then put them on a shelf..two days later... bingo).. . when we ran out of cars we were able to downgrade to chocolate buttons. Dgs still can't get his own trousers down or up himself so still needs full assistance.
His best friend is still fully in nappies, while some of his other peers were trained before they were 2.
My own children ranged from 2 -4 years old (at a time when 'by 2 was the norm)... they just varied because they were individuals!

Give yourself a few weeks break... wait for the summer and then go butt naked at home. But also, kindly you sound so stressed and projecting that others will judge, or that he will have to be homeschooled... please see your GP because you sound just like I did when I had PND (and was also trying to potty train a poo witholder!)

This will eventually pass, I promise!

Hey, I’m not the one implementing this. I’m in a support role. They haven’t refused to have children in nappies though, teachers have argued that it isn’t in the best interest of the child or staff for the child to attend full time if they are not toilet trained. That would mean a part time arrangement, which definitely does happen. It gets reviewed every so often. Generally it is the right thing, too.

@Comeandeat how are you doing today my lovely? Ignore all the ‘you should just do it’ type posts. We each have our strengths and growing edges in parenting. I’m sure a lot of those posting quite dismissive advice would hate to hear their own words if they found themselves struggling. Just take in what you need and disregard the rest. Enjoy your boy, you’ll get there in no time xx

Urgh, sorry OP - the app keeps only loading some posts for me so I've also seen the bit just now where you mention when you tried the OC method. It's entirely up to you obviously, I can't say I "liked it" at all either but it did serve as a means to an end. Good luck with whatever you decide going forward x

The problem is at this age there won't be a diagnosis even if there is an ND or mild developmental issue so there's no way of knowing if there's a reason he hasn't grasped potty training yet.

We were hearing this exact thing for over three years, that DC could absolutely be potty trained at 2.5, 3, 4, 5, we just need to adapt our methods and keep pushing... People only stopped telling us to crack on when DC was 7 and finally diagnosed with autism.

Sometimes it's better for parents and children if they all take a step back and come back to it another time, when the child might be better at communicating or any developmental concerns are more prominent and identifiable. This way it's much less stressful for everyone involved.

OP - you sound like you are having a really tough time, and you're getting really negative, unhelpful responses here! I started potty training both my boys at around the age you started with DS or later and it worked fine, so I really don't think you've left it too late. There's quite a few people talking about their DDs potty training earlier, but it's common knowledge that girls are often successfully potty trained long before boys. I bet your DS isn't the only kid at pre-school who is not potty trained, and I would really reconsider pulling him out if I were you. When my DS1 was at pre-school years ago half the boys in his group weren't potty trained and they made a big push to get them all using the toilet before they started school, and we're in Scotland so they were mostly older than when kids start school in England. The pre-school will be used to supporting potty training, he'll be getting the socialisation and will be seeing other boys and girls successfully use the toilets and you'll both get a bit of a break from each other which it really sounds like you need! They'll also be able to help spot if there are any developmental delays.

So if I was you I'd take a break from actively trying to get him to do a poo in the toilet/potty for now, but speak to pre-school and get their advice. I'd also consider speaking to your GP (it sounds like you've spoken to the HV and they've not been helpful, but if not speak to them too) because if the issue is only with poos there may well be something like constipation involved that's making things more difficult. And be kind to yourself, it sounds like you have been doing everything that you can!

My DD3 was still having wee accidents until she was four and a half, and occasionally wetting the bed until she was eight or nine, in contrast to her two older siblings who were dry day and night by three. DD3 is now fourteen with all of this behind her, now, obviously. Oh, and she was in cloth nappies, if anyone's wondering, it made no difference. All children are different, your DS will get there in his own time.

Latest research does actually say to introduce the potty early, because in the longer term it is better for your child's mental health to introduce the potty /toileting early and ideally be out of nappies between the ages of 18 months and 2 years (as it was when I was a child)
See https://www.bristol.ac.uk/policybristol/policy-briefings/incontinence-mental-health

You @Comeandeat , have obviously tried this and it's not worked. SO my advice is to go back to nappies for your sanity, then, when we have some half decent weather in 4-6 weeks time (Easter), and you can take him outdoors with nothing on the bottom half and encourage him to use the potty. He'll have remembered what you've taught him so far, and, if it works, I'd personally suggest bribery with chocolate (we used cooking drops not a vast amount) prize for poo in the potty or toilet - worked for me. If not, back to nappies try again in a few weeks. In the mean time I'd work on dressing/undressing skills, and make sure he can pull his trousers up and down etc.

Just don't beat yourself up over it! There have to be people either side of the normal to get an 'average'.

Huge numbers of children are starting school in nappies. It is simply not feasible for nursery (and Reception) teachers and TAs to spend all their time wiping bottoms. 3 years old is old enough to learn, unless they have extenuating circumstances, e.g. severe SEN.

I would try cotton nappies, so he feels the dampness against his skin ( including at night). I don’t know if cotton pull ups exist. If they do, then you could combine that with initiating the habit of going to the loo at regular intervals, even if nothing happens. He will get there.

If potty-training is pushing out normal, happy life with her child, of course it's best for the OP to put it on the back-burner now. Persevering would not only be bad for the OP but not in her son's interests.

OP, as parents we only have so much to give. You are best placed to decide where your resources (practical and emotional) are best-targeted but imo it's not making yourself miserable and your son anxious by banging your head against a brick wall. Think of what you're both missing out on.

Perhaps we should stop sending 4 year olds to full time "proper" school, then? 🤷‍♀️ Too young, imo. I'm thankful that I'm in Scotland, where all three of mine were either turned five, or a week short of turning five, when they started school.

You seem really stressed and that absolutely won't be helping and so in your situation I would sack it off for a month or two and then try again. How long is it until he starts school? Is he going in this September or next?

If this September I wouldn't wait until he suggests it but I would give yourself a break and try again in a couple of months.

I understand. My daughter's were pretty easy to train, one was trained by 2 the other 3 and just a couple of weeks of wet or pooy pants but my son was an absolute nightmare. It looked like he was going to start school in nappies, not for lack of trying on my part he just didn't seem to want to try (he did have additional issues around constipation that made it worse). He ended up training just after his 4th birthday and went to school in pants but having a few accidents. I had to give up for a while as I had got to the point I was so stressed I felt angry everytime he pood his pants and it just wasn't healthy for either of us.

Just take a break. Have a breather and come back to it.

Kids are a law into themselves. My youngest, a wonderful young man today, refused to be toilet trained until almost 4. He was my only child in childcare since he was 12 months old - he had us, his brothers, the teachers and all the kids in the centre to show him what to do and he refused to it. Until one day he decided it was time, and that was that.

He also refused to sleep unless I was with him near his bed. He'll wake up, not see me there, and get into my bed. I'll put him back n his bed and he was back in mine in 30 seconds flat. Wash, rinse and repeat. I even engaged a psychologist, none of her methods worked. One day, he stayed in his bed and from then on he never didn't want to get into bed with me, even on Mother's Day. It was like a switch had turned off. He was then 6 y.o.

OP, kids don't come with a manual. Often they do things at their own pace and comfort level. As I've said before, be consistent but don't stress. He'll figure it out.