AIBU to ask how anyone affords to have children?

[NameChangedAgainn]

DP and I are in our early 30s and people keep asking when we're going to have children, we're on the fence but we can't work out how anyone on our salaries can afford to have children. We're aware time is running out as it were (both my mum and nan hit perimenopause by 40 so aware that it's looming).
Am I missing something obvious?
My salary is roughly £1800 after tax, NI, pension and student loans. DP's is similar. Full time childcare for one child would ruin us financially at £400pw around here (and that would involve one of us working less hours to do pick ups as it closes at 6pm, so one salary would drop, the only way I could make it work would be to do 4 days work over 5 days).
We don't have £400pw spare after mortgage (£1300), bills, food and transport (£1500 if we cut to no eating out or buying lunches and really budget). The money we currently have spare per month (realistically this is a few hundred, but if we cut back to the bare bones as above it would be almost £800) is mostly eaten up in saving for small emergencies, holidays and events (e.g. The clutch went on the car recently, the washing machine needed repairing the next week, then it was MIL birthday the following week).
Benefits calculator (I never thought we would ever have to claim benefits) says we would be entitled to £18pw.
The best case scenario seems to be us being about £1000 short every month and having no spare money for any unexpected costs. We are trying to save at the moment but don't have enough to even get through mat leave.

So as not to drip feed:

• We have no parents or family living anywhere near us that could help with childcare, we had to move away from family for work and then further away again to be able to afford a house.
• 23 years left on the mortgage on a small 3 bed mid terrace in a relatively non expensive area.
• We have one second hand car that we own outright and share.

This is why we stopped at just 2. We accepted everytime we had a child it set us back financially for childcare. It is the worst for the first few years but it does get better. We didn't have any family help either. We went childminder route because it was cheaper and were pretty much waiting around for the free hours to kick in before we saw any kind of return on all the work hours we were putting in while parenting also. It sucks but we all do it.

It does feel low but it is only just below the average salary (as we keep being reminded).
We have considered moving further away from our current jobs but the extra commute /commute costs puts us off. We've considered trying to move altogether but finding both of us jobs in a new area is hard and also we'd be even further from family and starting afresh with making local friends.

£400 pw is £80 per day.

I know childcare is expensive but that's extremely expensive for many areas. Even after all the recent price rises in the past couple of years, the price here is about £46 a full day - and I don't think that's an unusual price.

I know very few people that just merrily put the dc in childcare for 5 full days a week, Monday to Friday and carry on with no adjustments to working hours. Far more common amongst friends that the parents either work different days to each other (one parent Mon to Fri, another Sat to Wed for instance) OR both parents work compressed full time, taking a different week day off each.

Then that 5 full days of care becomes 3 full days of care - with total cost £138 a week or £111 a week after TFC.

£111 a week is a far cry from your calculations of £400 a week!

I see you replying to other people but you’re ignoring the fact that there is a massive change to the childcare system that means you will be eligible for a big chunk of help from Sept 2025 - yes there are issues with there being enough spaces but we have managed to access it through a childminder (which they are also incentivising so hopefully more joining the profession).

“From September 2025, working parents of children under the age of five will be entitled to 30 hours of free childcare a week.”

it’s a massive change that is very relevant to your question yet you don’t seem to be acknowledging it.

I have two DC 6 & 4. I accepted a long time ago that I would be in my overdraft and use a credit card and I don't know anyone else in my position that doesn't. My own our house - mortgaged and we both work full time (joint income around 90k) it has become easier since DS4 started preschool in September and we haven't got childcare to pay.

£80 a day is what everyone I know in our city is paying, well some are paying £78 but some are paying £82. That's before the tax free childcare savings though.
We have thought about one of us giving up our Mon-Fri careers but haven't found suitable alternative work yet.
Compressed hours wouldn't work for us, in fact, we would have to reduce hours to make it to nursery pick ups as they all seem to close at 6.

As I said above I am struggling to keep up with replying to comments, I'm also googling this now as I'd not heard about this /nobody I know with children has mentioned this when I've asked about nursery costs.

Is this just in England? I can't find anything about it for Wales. I know Wales has some funded hours from 2yrs (friends have said that's why nursery fees shot up but I imagine it's one of many reasons).

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/01/02/how-to-apply-for-30-hours-free-childcare-and-find-out-if-youre-eligible/

Looks like just England as it states:

There are different childcare support schemes in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

2 adults can live on way less than £500pm food, £75pw fuel when you work from home half the week is a lot, you forego holidays and events if this is what you really want. Power is high too for 2 adults, I've a bigger busier home and we're £170pm

The office days involve a lot of sitting in rush hour traffic miserably watching the petrol gage go down - have been thinking about a more economical car but again, the cost puts us off. Our office days don't always align either and we do share the car.
The car is also used for shopping, visiting friends and family (who live a fair distance away, we can spend £50 on a round trip to either of our parents' houses). It's not £75 every week, but it averages over £300 a month at the moment.
The food bill is also other things we buy in the supermarket - cleaning supplies, toiletries, loo roll etc, medication, pet food. We used to spend about £50 a week a couple of years ago, we haven't changed our shopping habits but it's crept up to £110-£120 a week (have multiplied that by 52 and divided by 12 to get the monthly figure of £500).
Our electrical appliances seem to be inefficient, we have checked for a fault in the meter but we are definitely using that much energy. Everything is electric except the heating and hot water, we barely use the heating though, we wrap up in jumpers and just have enough heating to keep the chill off when it's very cold. Working from home seems to be a drain on the electric if the smart meter is accurate.
We have already removed holidays and events from the budget.

Thanks, maybe Wales will introduce something in the coming years 🤞

They buy smaller homes.

We looked at a 2 bed (which wouldn't have room for wfh and a toddler but would do for the baby stage when they can share our room) but the cost difference was so small it didn't make much difference to the mortgage at the time.
Our home is very small - one box room that wouldn't fit a bed and a wardrobe in it, one single spare room and our double room. Downstairs we have a small living room and a kitchen.
Outside we have a tiny garden.

If you're sitting in traffic for long periods you shouldn't have your engine idling. Rather than look for savings you're making excuses, creep the food bill down, turn the heating down, less £50 journeys.
I can feed 2 adults for £70pw, £120 is just silly.
If you really want to cut back you will.

I spend £120 per week on 3 adults for food. Breakfast and dinner for all every day and lunch for one every day and about half the days for the other two.

This is why so many of us have smaller families than we’d like. Govt bleating on about people not having children doesn’t actually make any practical difference! The free childcare situation in Wales is different. You get fewer hours, and one friend was saying she has to spread them over a week. So from I think age of 3, her daughter got 2-3 hours a day at nursery, but the rest of the day had to be paid for. Except the nursery offering free hours was the school one, which didn’t offer full days, so she had to pay full time hours at a different nursery then pay someone to take her daughter to and from, which made it more expensive, so obviously she just used the paid for nursery! It seemed really aimed at non-working families, or families with a SAHP, to make sure those children got some nursery time. This was 5 years ago , might be different now, but it wasn’t at all geared up towards helping working families.

I don't normally say this @NameChangedAgainn and I'm quite conservative about having dc in many ways, and sometimes really shake my head about stories on MN about people rushing into it before they have even a single duck in a row...in your situation I'd say go ahead. Start your family.

You have what seems like a stable relationship, long term commitment, own a home together, are educated, have good jobs and a good head on your shoulder.

Give yourself a year and do everything you can this year to

1. cut back
2. generate more income - rent out a room, cut everything you can, apply for higher income positions, do small side gigs

It will work. You can't imagine it before kids but you have a lot behind you, you will make it work. There is not one exact way to do this. Some people cut hours, some people both return full time, some people have one person give up main job and they work something evenings/weekends when their partner is home. Some both do condensed hours so they only need childcare 3/5 days/week. Others have someone start earlier and work 7-3/4 and the other works 9-5/5:30 so that they need less hours of childcare.

No one can tell you what is exactly right for you, but you will find a way. It's how my family and most of our friends do it. It's a juggle, most of us are midwives, social workers, nurses, teachers, teaching assistants, etc., and we'd had to find a way. We have all found a way. You will too.

Also I do think you may find things cheaper with a childminder.

Another possibility that's not been mentioned is using annual leave 1 day/week or 1 day/fortnight each to reduce childcare bill for a while, if employer will permit it. People will say you'll burn out without a holiday, but actually if you'd be taking a small child on holiday anyway and couldn't afford to stay away from home then it's just the same childcare time whether you take it as a week or individual days. Works best in public sector where annual leave and other emergency etc leave is more generous.

In Wales afaik there's the half day flying start funding from age two which isn't yet in all geographic areas, nurseries will likely let you top up the funded hours towards a full day. Then 30 hours funding from age 3, but 10-15 of the hours can only be used in school nursery which is likely half days, some school nurseries may offer wrap around to a full day.

(Or just keep having children as close together as possible and use the mat leave from the baby to look after the older ones until cost of living improves! There are obviously risks associated with this strategy 😂)

YANBU op.

Some of the advice on here like ‘change careers’ is a bit silly, as if that’s always simple and quick to do, let alone a guarantee of earning more money.

I have to be honest and say that we only get by as we earn more, as in around £110k+ as a household.

Even then, before my son’s 30 hours kicked in at nursery, I was just about breaking even and wasn’t saving anything. I had to dip into savings for our holiday, and I only have the savings I do because of redundancy money. My DH does earn a lot more than me though.

Also do take things like maternity pay into consideration. I’ve had great packages with my work but still relied on DH to pay the bills in the last few months of leave.

It is childcare and days out that really screw you. When my son starts school, I’m just hoping my boss allows me to change my hours so I can do school pick up.
My 3 year old likes going to a soft play near me that is £10 a session. Things here like farm parks and water parks can also cost you £50 for a family as well, and we’re not even into the age yet where they have proper hobbies.

Obv this may not be necessary but there are times when I have been really glad to have some extra money. There are no NHS dentists here so I have to pay for private dentistry for my kids, and I have also has to pay for private physio and speech therapy for my son due to NHS wait lists.

Most of my friendship group are sticking at 2 kids max. Many of them are stopping at 1.

Taking in a lodger for the short term sounds like the most obvious solution right now. One desk in you bedroom and one in the box. You opted for the larger house as the cost difference was minimal so it makes sense to use that.

You really don’t know how long it would take to get pregnant and even if ttc now, you could potentially be looking at 2 years of lodger payments to bridge the gap before a baby comes along. You’d then only have 2 years left on your fixed term mortgage, thus needing to have 2 years worth of extra cash generated from having a lodger.

You need to lower your expectation of your lifestyle with a baby. No holidays, no going out. We camped and youth hosteled a lot with the dc when they were little.

Years ago, friends with twins took out a loan to pay childcare fees in the early days, and started paying it back when their subsidised hours kicked at 3. It feels like this could be a more common solution now that childcare is so much more expensive.

Where do you live? £1300 a month on a 3 bed terrace sounds expensive. Sounds like you’re in an expensive area but the salary’s aren’t matching?

have you looked at the funded hours scheme? It will eventually become 30 hours from 9 months although the nurseries are increasing the fees which aren’t funded to cover their losses

Cut back on everything possible-
Change phone contract to the cheapest
No gym membership
No eating out
Reduce tv subscriptions
Only buy essential clothes etc.
Cut down on food costs.

It's hard and compromises have to be made. Living further out even though the commute is more painful.
Less time together as one starts work earlier and picks up and one drops off
If you live near London, hence the high cost of living, IT and office support are too low paid. You could get better salaries.
We had City salaries - combined household income of £150k but had a one bed flat until our baby was one to save for nursery and a house deposit. I would have loved the nurseries my friends kids all had living up North.
We then relocated to another area in the North where the cost of housing against salaries was better.