That I don't need to pay

[Notcms]

Opinions pls as I don't not know anymore if IABU.
I am a resident parent whose children go to other parent 2 nights every 14.
I am a high earner, and non-resident parent is a mw earner who works part-full time.
I am being told by professionals involved with the children that the difference in the childrens lifestyle is not fair, and I should be financially supporting the non resident parent.
I do not claim CMS or anything from the other parent although obviously I am entitled to.
Aibu to not hand over money to non resident parent who say they are struggling....or should I pay something?

I wouldn’t give the NRP money, no. If ‘nice activities’ are the issue, then you should be able to provide said activities. I rather think if you give money directly, not a penny of that would go on the children.

I know you said in your view, it’s a case of ‘beggars can’t be choosers’, but I think it’s more ‘you can’t have your cake and eat it’. They can’t plead poverty while simultaneously turning down the thing they say they can’t do 🤷🏻‍♀️ especially not when it’s 2 days in a fortnight and there’s no clarity about their employment or earnings AND when they done pay CMS.

Perhaps they should use what they would contribute via CMS for the activities they apparently want to do with the children…

I'd be petty , claim CMS and give that back to them every month 😂

I think it’s interesting that OP has hidden her sex, and the sex of the NRP. I wonder why that might be?

You do sound a bit snarky & controlling OP. Surely it’s up to the NRP how they spend the money on the DC.

So, you've offered tickets and opportunities for the ex to do these things with your joint DC and been generous enough to pay for the NRP ticket as well as their new DC? They turn these offers down - why? Do they feel patronised, humiliated, a charity case, controlled? I'm trying to imagine how they've persuaded the less than professional 'professional' that it affects their self esteem. Well, tough.

You need to be clear with the therapist that you have offered these things, that the lack of a CMS claim is like a gift of extra money to the ex already and if they're that hard up why can't they work more or be more imaginative about the activities they do together? It smacks of jealousy to me.

@Notcms the NRP self esteem may be a concern for a therapist but it is not your problem.
You've been generous in not wanting maintenance. You've been generous in offering tickets and these were refused. You've been generous in taking the kids for the majority of the time. You've been generous in splitting things 50 50 in the financial order.

The NRP in this case may find the unequal situation difficult to stomach. But just read all the threads in here from women who are having to move to smaller accommodation, smaller incomes, change of lifestyle etc.

It is not your job to solve parenting for the ex as long as the basics and essentials for your kids are taken care of.

If you have a financial order then there's nothing more to say really. If you haven't then get one ASAP!

If it were true that the NRP thinks that your children should have a more equal standard of living at both parents' houses, if you were to enable this, surely that would then just clearly underline the vast difference in the standard of living between their own children on those two days per fortnight and that of their new child who lives with them all the time.

So would their logic be that you also need to pay for their child who is nothing to do with you to have the same standard of living? What if they had another child, three more children, twelve more children with their new partner? Are you expected to keep them all in a nice privileged lifestyle as well?

The asking for money to be able to take them to the cinema, theatre etc. and then turning down tickets for those exact activities when offered them free is extremely suspicious. It makes me think of certain homeless people who ask you for money for a sandwich or a Greggs bake or whatever - but then when you ask which kind they'd like and offer to buy it for them, they get angry that you haven't handed over money. A genuine homeless person would be very grateful to be given the chicken salad sandwich or vegan sausage roll that they originally asked you to pay for for them.

I think it's safe to assume that any money you gave would not be going to benefit your children at all. It's just a very transparent ruse - no different from the beggar who wants money for a six-pack of lager or weed but knows they're much more likely to get it if they claim they're desperate for a Happy Meal or two instead.

If a parent only sees their children 2 week end a month and has no other children-related expenses they can easily entertain them with free activities (crafts, museums, cooking/baking, learn to play chess, scrapbooking, nature trails…).

Part-full time is just that I have no idea if actual working hours are part time or full time.
In court case it was said NRP worked long hours and so could not have more than 2 nights per fortnight....but then the kids find out other parent does the school run for the other child so that implies part time hours. It's a mystery.

NRP has a partner yes. They are both parents to the new child. (Who my children adore BTW, and buy birthday, Easter, Xmas cards/gift for 👍🏻).

the only backstory really is the divorce was long & painful, with court orders for both finance and children as we could not agree what was best.

I don’t think they need to do tons of activities every time they see their nrp every two weeks, they’re doing stuff with you. Paying for the new child and the nrp is-imo-bonkers. Kids don’t need to go to expensive/paid for activities every time they see the nrp and yes, frankly, he or she could up their working hours, given the6 now have another child. You’re not asking for cms, so absolno, yo7 shouldn’t be paying for extra stuff when your dc are with the nrp.

Because the NRP will be female and on here it has to be the male at fault.

You've designated the OP as 'snarky' so presumably you've decided they're the male.

This sounds batshit

I have SC, and we have 4 overnights every two weeks (EOW plus a weeknight). We’re the lower income household.

Now, we don’t need foodbanks, but I’m racking my brain for the last time we took the SDCs swimming/cinema/etc. our weekends are full of their sports activities and visiting friends and family, parks, walks etc. there’s free entry museums near us.

In fact, I think we’ve been to the cinema once because it was a film I really wanted to see.

We do do the odd “big” family activity, but that’s usually a voucher given at Xmas or for my DH’s birthday etc. But it would have zero effect on the SDC’s welfare or our relationship if we didn’t do “big” things.

Nothing to do with self esteem and all to do with jealousy.

I think if they can’t have DC that much because they work long hours, but then they don’t, then they just sound like a shit parent, they sound like they could see them much more and choose not to. That’s the issue. The children will realise this.
Contact time is to spend time with DC, it’s nice to do things, but it’s also just to be together.

I would argue that it is OP’s business how OP’s money is spent.

Also, why would their sex make a difference?

You are not being unreasonable to not give them money to spend on the children at the weekend. They shouldn’t have gone on to have another child if they couldn’t afford the ones they already had. I would go as far to say, if it was me, I would claim maintenance through the CMS and then give it back to them to spend on the children whilst they are in their care. I think they are being exceptionally cheeky to expect cash hand out for children that they are already not paying anything towards.

If you lost your job tomorrow, would they step in and pay for the children above and beyond the legal minimum they had too? I’d bet my next months wage on them saying no!

Since when was CMS based on the self esteem rating of the NRP?

I mean this is so ridiculous. The NRPs self esteem was fine enough to find someone, start a relationship and have another child. When they couldn’t afford the ones they have.

Why would the RP pay towards the NRP household?

I have absolutely no time for my ex, but I do give him money to take my DC out sometimes, not that often though. Mainly in school holidays.
For it to be expected and regular isn’t ok, as cafcass have seemed to imply, but I don’t see anything wrong with occasionally helping out so DC can have nice experiences.

I suspect there's a lot more going on than this.

Why were Cafcass involved?

I think that you should pay as much attention to this professional as a random on here. They have a right to voice an opinion but I can’t help but wonder if they are projecting their personal
circumstances on you. You are already being generous by not requesting child support and providing stuff like clothes that can be used on dad’s days (technically he should be providing for his days but I think it practice many teens take their favourite items to each house - mine always have)

I suspect, if you are the Dad there is some good old-fashioned sexism from the therapist here — I’ve tried reading this imagining you are dad, and then mum. Either way I think you are being entirely reasonable.

I wonder if NRP has reduced hours worked due to having another child and this is causing them financial difficulty. But really how is this your problem? If the kids are loved, fed, warm and safe then it’s not your responsibility to find “extras”.

The NRP has a new relationship and chose to have a new child. If this is limiting their new family income, that’s absolutely not your problem.

In your shoes I would kindly but firmly stick to your guns and explain to the therapist that you’re under no moral, legal or parenting duty to fend for your ex who has formed a new and separate family.

As long as you aren’t trash-talking the ex to your kids (and I assume you are not!) then by all means lavish your kids with oodles of love, creature comforts, activities, days out, trendy clothes and gifts if you wish. And don’t feel bad about it.

If this therapist was someone you respect then you should listen to them and consider whether or not you are right, not just assume you are.

You are clearly richer than they are but the issue is not the ex's standard of living it is the children's. If your children are living off foodbanks when they are not with you, the parents need more money. It is quite controlling of you to pay for things rather than giving money. You chose to have children with this person and you are not putting them at the centre, you are putting your need to be in the right there.

All this assuming you can afford to pay more money obviously.

It depends what you mean by ‘high income’ really. 100k? 100000k? More? If you’re a really high earner perhaps you would have some liability for spousal/ child maintenance but if you have a court order for finances that’s final isn’t it?
you shouldn’t be planning theatre etc on times they’re not with you, that’s quite bizarre and controlling. If you really wanted to make a genuine gift buy a voucher!

So they're a 2 parent family and he also chose to have another child?
No the therapist is way off!

I can't see any reason why it's your responsibility to find your ex tbh. If things are that desperate then sending food for your dc is very kind. But I imagine there's a huge number of dc out there who don't go on paid activities every weekend.

Doing the school run in no way means they re part time, they could be doing a 5-12 shift for all you know or wfh . someone has to do
the school run so perhaps they have to work around it, parents of younger children often have to work part time

Hell no. I would never subsidize my ex, over my dead body. And it's not about the kids, otherwise ex would just accept cinema tickets, etc.

You're already doing more than enough. 12 nights out of 14, pay for everything, don't claim maintenance. You can take your kids out, they'll be fine without fancy activities for the rest 2 days.

Oh, and I'd change therapists. Either they are deluded/incompetent or a friend of the ex.

Doesn't matter if your ex is a man or a woman - you're already doing enough, OP.