Subsidised childcare va care home fees

[MrBanana]

Discussing the introduction of 15 free hours for two year olds with friends (which I think is flawed but that’s not the point of this post). Friend 1 said childcare has to be made free. I disagree, there’s no political appetite for that. People of retirement age feel quite strongly that parents should be responsible for their own children. They’re the ones who vote in the largest numbers.

I don’t disagree, but I don’t agree that we somehow have it easier. We are told we have to be responsible for our own children. But we can’t now survive on one salary alone. Childcare is now more expensive and inadequately funded. Everyone I know with a two year old has seen their nursery bill increase in anticipation of the “free hours”
to compensate for it.

But then it struck me that these people are the same people who have “worked all their life” and don’t feel they should have to pay their care home fees and if they do, complain about it being unfair. Healthcare is still free to them, whereas we are finding it increasingly difficult to get a dentist for example.

It just struck me how hypocritical the whole argument is - we are supposed to be responsible for our children, by virtue of them being our children, whilst simultaneously working. But the current cohort of retirement age are complaining about, and want to avoid, being financially responsible for themselves! Most won’t have been paying taxes whilst receiving the benefits we’re now paying for childcare/dentistry etc.

Im not sure that’s the best structured argument but I hope I've made my point well enough to be understood.

Its an interesting point you've made that I've not thought about before but actually yes I agree with you to an extent.

Let's lump all "old people" together and moan about them. AGAIN.

or have a disabled child. Often, there is no childcare. Children with SN are usually completely forgotten in the while free childcare scenario.

So tired of people trying to close down discussion by always crying ageism.

A lot of people in their 80s were sold the nhs would provide from “cradle to grave”. they see getting old, infirm and needing care as firmly sitting within that remit.

What the actual fuck????

you are comparing childcare to residential care or care at home for the elderly?

Jesus wept.

So tired of people making negative generalisations based on age.

Yes and that’s my point - they want to benefit to the extent it benefits them whilst those of us working and raising families now will get their fingers burnt at both ends. We’re not benefiting from the same way from the NHS, we need to work to survive but don’t have accessible, affordable childcare AND we’ll have to pay for our own care in old age. We’re very much on our own by comparison. Or so it feels.

I’m not moaning - I’m examining the landscape of each generation.

It’s not just older people who are complaining about paying for care homes - lots of my middle aged friends are incandescent about it as it means loss of inheritance 🙄. Whenever I ask who they think will pay for care homes instead they can never answer.

I cannot comprehend the cost of childcare now - another area where Scandinavian countries seem to get it so right and we get it so wrong 🤬.

Most won’t have been paying taxes whilst receiving the benefits we’re now paying for childcare/dentistry etc.

Who hasn't paid tax? I paid tax. My dentist went private nearly 20 years ago, it's not a new thing.

Also, it's entirely possible that "people of retirement age" also can't get a dentist. My local dentist closed at very short notice and no others nearby are taking on even private patients, never mind NHS. I live in a town with a predominantly older demographic, so many retirees will have been affected.

@MrBanana Apart from free prescriptions for the over 60's, (which the Govt consulted on changing but nothing has happened so far) which bit of the NHS do you think is free for older people that isn't free or reduced price for everyone else? There is no free dental treatment for pensioners on the NHS unless they are on a low income, the same as under 60's.

It's the younger people that don't want to see their inheritance go on the care home, they are the ones that benefit, not the person whose house it is.

"But the current cohort of retirement age are complaining about, and want to avoid, being financially responsible for themselves! Most won’t have been paying taxes whilst receiving the benefits we’re now paying for childcare/dentistry etc."

Pensioner here. I paid childcare fees 30 years ago, it's nothing new and I had to go to a private dentist over 20 years ago.

The only reason I don't want to pay for a care home if unfortunately that's where I end up is I'd rather my kids had my money

My kids have spied out a nice underpass for me, there's plenty of other people down there to keep me company or I'm going on a world cruise which is cheaper than a care home. I had promised to jump overboard but it's a terrible way to go. I need to think up a new plan so they get the dosh

Edited: PS I have always paid taxes and I still do as I do the odd bit of work here and there

On a cynical social and economic level the point of subsidising childcare is that it is an investment in the future of society - if a child has access to good quality childcare they will be cheaper to educate and more likely to earn more money and pay more taxes once adult...

Elderly care is morally equally important but the future implications of failure isn't more economic cost to society.

This isn't necessarily the right way to look at it but on a societal level if all children get a good education from early years onwards it will cost less so less cost of state, more warmers, more productivity.

Issue is the investment takes a long time to pay off and governments think in max 5 year terms...

Your posts are absolutely moaning about the "older generation" whilst also implying that the younger generation(s) have it far worse.

Those not economically productive whilst raising their family.

That’s your view.

I’m just trying to look at it critically.

This whole argument is nonsense anyway “People of retirement age feel quite strongly that parents should be responsible for their own children.”

free childcare means more people (especially women!) work and pay taxes which helps fund pensions ane NHS. Literally everywhere in Europe childcare is free or super heavily subsidised. Because these countries know they need women to have more children and economically they need women to be in work! Plus not to mention it means families have more money to spend.

In Italy my friend pays €30 a month!! For a nursery from 8-3pm. Sure it’s not perfect (3pm finish) but it allows her to work 80%. My cousin ij Germany pays €150 a month for a full time nursery place and they get child benefit which is not means tested.

I'm sorry but I worked and paid tax 30 years ago and DS was in a nursery, loads of people worked.

Bearing in mind my parents of are of this age group. I would far rather they had a good quality of life than try and maximise inheritance for me.

From experience childcare in the UK is some of the worst in western Europe and is certainly the most expensive. It is a major block on the progression of women and for productivity in general and we absolutely should do something to address this. I am not sure though that our elderly are doing any better. The care regime for the elderly is shambolic and vastly expensive as well as I have experienced with my own folks. I think we need to address both as we do public services as a whole in the UK.

Childcare is more expensive and less accessible.
More women work now.
Those that work, work more hours.

The outlook for women working has changed.

Absolutely, both are bleak.

I just get frustrated by the argument that your children are your own financial burden, where the same isn’t true of your old age and care needs.