Subsidised childcare va care home fees

[MrBanana]

Discussing the introduction of 15 free hours for two year olds with friends (which I think is flawed but that’s not the point of this post). Friend 1 said childcare has to be made free. I disagree, there’s no political appetite for that. People of retirement age feel quite strongly that parents should be responsible for their own children. They’re the ones who vote in the largest numbers.

I don’t disagree, but I don’t agree that we somehow have it easier. We are told we have to be responsible for our own children. But we can’t now survive on one salary alone. Childcare is now more expensive and inadequately funded. Everyone I know with a two year old has seen their nursery bill increase in anticipation of the “free hours”
to compensate for it.

But then it struck me that these people are the same people who have “worked all their life” and don’t feel they should have to pay their care home fees and if they do, complain about it being unfair. Healthcare is still free to them, whereas we are finding it increasingly difficult to get a dentist for example.

It just struck me how hypocritical the whole argument is - we are supposed to be responsible for our children, by virtue of them being our children, whilst simultaneously working. But the current cohort of retirement age are complaining about, and want to avoid, being financially responsible for themselves! Most won’t have been paying taxes whilst receiving the benefits we’re now paying for childcare/dentistry etc.

Im not sure that’s the best structured argument but I hope I've made my point well enough to be understood.

The problem is you choose to have children but you don't choose to become unable to look after yourself and so need a care home
So I do think affordable care for elderly is more important than for children (unless they have a disability)

We just get prescriptions free but I have only had a tube of Efudex cream in the last six years so not much.

I got my first free prescription (I shall be 66 in a few months) a fortnight ago.

I've been paying for a private dentist for some time now.

The post I quoted was only anecdotal too, what’s your point?

There it is - “the tax payer” the parents are the tax payers too!

You’re not subsidising in the true sense, there is solid evidence to indicated that an initial investment would not only be recovered but profited from.

How do you propose to staff your care home everyone makes the choice not to have children?

She definitely didn’t pay more in than she took out

The services that supported you whilst you were raising children.

Dental care - I can’t get my kids in with an NHS dentist. At all.
NHS - DC needs speech therapy, had to be private. Health visitors virtually non existent. Etc.
preschools - there just isn’t the provision available and those that do, charge a top up of the free hours.
Child benefit - don’t get that anymore - it wasn’t capped until relatively recently.

It’s true, the current batch of ‘elderly’ either never paid in, or paid so little in its of little significance.

Even men who paid in their entire working lives will have contributed less than the average working person today.

Thats why it’s silly

I don't object - and have always argued for paying more taxes - to support public services. I include childcare in that. I still pay tax.

What racks me right off is the 'us vs them' atittude which paints all people over 60 with the 'they don't deserve anything and we do' brush. I've heard on here the notion that "most" pensioners didn't pay anything into the system, which is such patent nonsense it's breathtaking.

I don't think many of any age group put in as much as they take out, earnings need to be quite high to do that

Good? You get 6 weeks at 90% then the rest is £174 per week.

Because they will still choose to have children
There will never be a society where peoplechoose not to have children
People choosing to have children is rarely a cost issue
Is this not evident from the number of children living in poverty?

I would like everyone to be better supported. I would like to see subsidies that benefit everyone, childcare being one.

But I also believe that people shouldn’t be able to ring fence their own wealth at the expense of the rest of the population.

I would like to see some give and take. I don’t begrudge anyone care in their old age. But I don’t want to be taxed to the nines paying for one generations old age, so they can leave a sum to their family, whilst simultaneously supporting my own family.

How? How can you argue that? Many elderly people started working at 14 or 15 - how can they possible have paid in less? Or are you arguing that because wages were much, much less decades ago? You need to look at the basic rate of tax in the 20th century, too - in 1976, it was 35%.

People must have more money nowadays as they seem to have many more months off on maternity leave and don't go back until baby is about 9 months

Well no, because an aging population is itself a threat to the economy. So simply not having children isn’t a viable or sustainable solution.

That’s not true - the number of working mothers has INCREASED not decreased.

I agree 100% with everything you say here! Me too!

But your other statements have been a tad "us vs them".

Hardly anybody gets free care in old age. Even people who are pretty sick don't qualify for the tiny nhs subsidy. Fees in a basic home are upwards of £1000 per week and a big chunk of that is to subsidise the residents who don't pay fees. The care home gets your pension, leaving you with a tiny allowance to spend on personal items. It isn't great, IME. It isn't reasonable to blame old people for everything. Most of them have worked hard, paid taxes and done an awful lot of unpaid caring, especially the women.

Maybe this isn't about ‘us’ all arguing amongst ourselves. ( divide and conquer).

Maybe this is about a Conservative government who waste the tax payers money and therefore can't properly fund any of the public services we need, no matter how old or who we are.
Stop public services failing. The impact is public money (taxes) has to be used to buy from private companies ( just look at SEND provision as an example). Shared holders of private companies, paid by tax payers money, are clapping their hands in a desimated market.

I am more than willing to pay my taxes to have public services for myself if required and for those more vulnerable.

Quite, it’s not.

So you agree, you were talking shite about everyone choosing not to have children

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

Exactly, I’m commenting on the hypocrisy but not who is more deserving. Being self serving is where the problem originates.

Economically the country is pretty skewed due to high debt & demographic changes but people blame immigrants 🙄. No government will reduce this as they are very much needed with the birth rates as they are.