Subsidised childcare va care home fees

[MrBanana]

Discussing the introduction of 15 free hours for two year olds with friends (which I think is flawed but that’s not the point of this post). Friend 1 said childcare has to be made free. I disagree, there’s no political appetite for that. People of retirement age feel quite strongly that parents should be responsible for their own children. They’re the ones who vote in the largest numbers.

I don’t disagree, but I don’t agree that we somehow have it easier. We are told we have to be responsible for our own children. But we can’t now survive on one salary alone. Childcare is now more expensive and inadequately funded. Everyone I know with a two year old has seen their nursery bill increase in anticipation of the “free hours”
to compensate for it.

But then it struck me that these people are the same people who have “worked all their life” and don’t feel they should have to pay their care home fees and if they do, complain about it being unfair. Healthcare is still free to them, whereas we are finding it increasingly difficult to get a dentist for example.

It just struck me how hypocritical the whole argument is - we are supposed to be responsible for our children, by virtue of them being our children, whilst simultaneously working. But the current cohort of retirement age are complaining about, and want to avoid, being financially responsible for themselves! Most won’t have been paying taxes whilst receiving the benefits we’re now paying for childcare/dentistry etc.

Im not sure that’s the best structured argument but I hope I've made my point well enough to be understood.

So another person who won’t have paid enough into the system

Nonsense. Salary's were low then. Proportionally to income I paid as much if not more than people today. And I still pay tax now 40+ years later.

Are you really so lacking in intelligence that you can’t see the total irrelevance of what someone earned in the 1970s to their income over the ensuing 45 years? You really are making yourself look incredibly foolish here. I seem to remember you asserting that tax rates were lower in the past too.

There was rampant inflation in the 70s, I started full time work as a lab technician at 16, in 1974 just over £15 a week, office jobs which a lot of girls did who didn't stay on past O levels were about £14 a week, (not London) PPs £10 a week seems about right for 1972. We got high percent pay rises, sometimes twice a year iirc because of inflation.

@Helfs do we need to break it down into bite size pieces and gently explain about pay, inflation and tax so that you understand.

I think as I said before the scandi way of doing things works for me works way better- higher wages, high tax, high services, high pensions- many things covered off by high tax - (no NI, no council tax, cheap childcare etc). It encourages both to work , if able to work , so both entitled to full pensions

One thing that's rarely mentioned is the current female pensioners of 68 plus (I'm 62) - a lot of them simply didn't work or did a bit of part time and hence aren't getting full pensions in their own name- and married couples pension isn't as high as 2 single ones. The women I know who did work of that age range were either real careerists and had an actual 'career' (teachers, doctors etc) or they were really on the bones of their arse - I know few in the middle who worked- and this was a midlands mining town- the idea they all worked hard and all paid 40 years plus tax simply isn't the case with lots of the women- I'm not saying they didn't work hard at home- but lots were not paying tax

A lot of women that are probably in their 70s and 80s now paid the married woman's stamp which meant you got no pension as you relied on your husbands pension, something like that. I was a bit young for this as it was abolished fortunately.

I am finding this thread extremely depressing.
I don't understand why we can't agree that both older people and younger people should be supported. It's not a competition into which generation has the hardest time.
I am the first to say we should support children people with young families more . I know it is not easy bring up a family , it never has been!
I desperately want state schools to have more funding and would love it if something like sure start was re introduced to support families with young children. I am in favour of providing support for high quality childcare.
What I won't accept is that people of my generation haven't contributed enough, that we had it easy and don't now deserve support. We honestly didn't have it easy.. And I can't agree that older people shouldn't have financial support towards social care costs . Incidentally I read a recent report that showed less than 20% of over 80s used social care.
A society should be judged on how it supports it's most vulnerable and both the very old and very young come into that category.
This thread which some people seem to have used to create a division in the generations is very sad.

@Thedance

I am sorry you find it depressing. I don’t believe and hope it doesn’t come across that your generation (assuming that’s who you align to - which your posts suggests you do) haven’t worked hard, or had tough times. My parents are part of the same generation and I have a deep respect and admiration for them.

That said, it’s frustrating when policy seems to be driven by ring fencing wealth, services that supported them whilst they were bringing up young families and for the bulk of their lives aren’t available or aren’t available in the same way. My kids will probably never see an NHS dentist. They’ll likely have to go privately to see a consultant at the hospital or have a lengthy wait. I remember waiting a month to see a paediatrician when I was 12 and it was seen as a long waiting time! The problem is the contributions simply aren’t enough for the demand.

All whilst the parents of young families now are being taxed to the nines and it’s barely worth working because of childcare costs. But if you don’t work you can’t rely on healthcare etc being free and effective.

I agree - there needs to be total reform.

The health service was like this before the Conservatives were voted out last time. There is no reason for it to be as it currently is. I find depressing your assumptions that things can not improve. They can. And many European countries have a far better economy and public services than we do. We need a better government so we can improve the UK.

YANBU

@MrBanana it horrifies me that all the health support that was available to me and my small children 30+ years ago has evaporated. Between them my children accessed six monthly paediatric dentist check ups and treatment, speech and language therapy (for a very minor sound production issue), and podiatry (for inherited bunions) all provided, promptly, at the clinic in my very small town. None of those things are available to my DGCs and the clinic is now empty and boarded up.

I'm doing what I can by funding private SALT for the DGD who had far more serious speech and language issues, and with nursery fees. I will continue to help financially where I can as these things crop up.

I just wish these discussions didn't end up (or start) with personal slurs being aimed at my generation. This is a failing of government, not older people. We're the ones (or at least those of us who can afford to) who are trying to financially help our own kids and grandchildren who have been failed by 'austerity'.

When adjusted for inflation they’ve still not paid much into the system have they.